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Home > Forum > Triathlon Forum > 20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP

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20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP
Quote | Reply
AutomaticJack
May 10, 17 16:51
Post #1 of 11 (2247 views)
In early March i did a 20 min FTP test on a tri bike on a trainer. In April i broke out the road bike, the first year with a power meter on the road bike.. It is very difficult, to near impossible, to safely do an accurate outside FTP test here. Too many stoplights, cars, turning traffic, etc. I normally put the tri bike back on the trainer before races and do an FTP test, but now that I have a road bike PM I would like to avoid doing that.

Tonight I hammered a very hilly loop that took 1:20. Connect and GC agree that my best 20 min average was 1 watt less than my FTP test performance and my best 60 min average was 1 watt more than my FTP calculated off the 20 min test. So within margin of error. However, Connect says my NP for the entire ride was 12 watts higher than my FTP.

Since NP is the steady power needed to achieve the same results, should I use that as my new FTP? Thoughts
"...the street finds its own uses for things"
Quote Reply
Re: 20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail
May 10, 17 16:56
Post #2 of 11 (2237 views)
AutomaticJack wrote:

Since NP is the steady power needed to achieve the same results, should I use that as my new FTP? Thoughts

Only for Internet-reported FTP. For your own purposes, I'd use the average.
Quote Reply
Re: 20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thebigturtle
May 10, 17 17:30
Post #3 of 11 (2177 views)
The FTP you can hold for various circumstances CAN be quite different.

My outdoor 20 minute power on a hill is 15 watts higher than indoors, both using a road bike.
My Time trial bike FTP is lower than my road bike ftp by 10-15 watts as well.

FTP is a tool for setting training efforts and pacing during races, so if you should only use data acquired from similar circumstances.
Quote Reply
Re: 20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Karl.n
May 10, 17 18:29
Post #4 of 11 (2126 views)
AutomaticJack wrote:
It is very difficult, to near impossible, to safely do an accurate outside FTP test here. Too many stoplights, cars, turning traffic, etc. I normally put the tri bike back on the trainer before races and do an FTP test, but now that I have a road bike PM I would like to avoid doing that.

Where do you live so I can not move there?
Quote Reply
Re: 20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AutomaticJack
May 11, 17 6:41
Post #5 of 11 (1867 views)
South shore of central Long Island. To do a 20 min FTP test I would need about 8 miles or clear roadway. That just doesn't exist anywhere here. There is a park with a 4 mile loop but that is on the ocean so on a good day you can hold your watts into the wind and then usually spin out going with the wind. On a bad day you have to shift the front end to hold your cadence and then spin out going the other direction. Plus you have to go through the entrance/exit every loop - not a big deal at 15 mph but not real safe at 22 mph.
"...the street finds its own uses for things"
Quote Reply
Re: 20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Karl.n
May 11, 17 8:00
Post #6 of 11 (1802 views)
AutomaticJack wrote:
South shore of central Long Island. To do a 20 min FTP test I would need about 8 miles or clear roadway. That just doesn't exist anywhere here. There is a park with a 4 mile loop but that is on the ocean so on a good day you can hold your watts into the wind and then usually spin out going with the wind. On a bad day you have to shift the front end to hold your cadence and then spin out going the other direction. Plus you have to go through the entrance/exit every loop - not a big deal at 15 mph but not real safe at 22 mph.

Oh now you're being a little silly. There are plenty of places near you to do an ftp test. Heckscher is fine and​ the wind will die down in the next couple weeks. Also Rocky point state park, Westbury or sccc, the roads South of the Grumman airport, or I've done uninterrupted 1 hour tests on 24-51-111. You might have to drive a bit but you live on Long island so you're used to driving. Mike at Babylon or Chris at Kreb Cycle know all the routes out your way.

Good luck.
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Re: 20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
integrator
May 11, 17 8:37
Post #7 of 11 (1759 views)
Are you using the same power meter unit on each bike? If not, the same effort could yield different numbers. I went from Virtual Power, to a quarq and now have a Magnus. They all show different numbers and one of them is a large difference.
Quote Reply
Re: 20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Donzo98
May 11, 17 10:49
Post #8 of 11 (1670 views)
AutomaticJack wrote:
South shore of central Long Island. To do a 20 min FTP test I would need about 8 miles or clear roadway. That just doesn't exist anywhere here. There is a park with a 4 mile loop but that is on the ocean so on a good day you can hold your watts into the wind and then usually spin out going with the wind. On a bad day you have to shift the front end to hold your cadence and then spin out going the other direction. Plus you have to go through the entrance/exit every loop - not a big deal at 15 mph but not real safe at 22 mph.

Hey... me too :) Where do you live?? Shoot me a PM.
Quote Reply
Re: 20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AutomaticJack
May 11, 17 11:10
Post #9 of 11 (1635 views)
If your FTP is 150 then some of those suggestion "might work" but if you are pushing north of 300 and have a good aero position none of those suggestion are safe in a max effort condition. As far as Heckscher is concerned, to the best of my knowledge the wind never calms down there, and I ride there all summer. Add the light traffic, the ducks, and the stupid weekenders from the city and again, it is simply not safe or feasible. On Saturday I was running 31 mph and pushing only 270 watts. On the other side of the loop I was pushing about 350 watts at 11 mph.

Karl.n wrote:
AutomaticJack wrote:
South shore of central Long Island. To do a 20 min FTP test I would need about 8 miles or clear roadway. That just doesn't exist anywhere here. There is a park with a 4 mile loop but that is on the ocean so on a good day you can hold your watts into the wind and then usually spin out going with the wind. On a bad day you have to shift the front end to hold your cadence and then spin out going the other direction. Plus you have to go through the entrance/exit every loop - not a big deal at 15 mph but not real safe at 22 mph.


Oh now you're being a little silly. There are plenty of places near you to do an ftp test. Heckscher is fine and​ the wind will die down in the next couple weeks. Also Rocky point state park, Westbury or sccc, the roads South of the Grumman airport, or I've done uninterrupted 1 hour tests on 24-51-111. You might have to drive a bit but you live on Long island so you're used to driving. Mike at Babylon or Chris at Kreb Cycle know all the routes out your way.

Good luck.
"...the street finds its own uses for things"
Quote Reply
Re: 20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP [integrator] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AutomaticJack
May 11, 17 11:12
Post #10 of 11 (1630 views)
On the trainer I have a 2 year old Quarq Riken AL on a Transition. On the road bike I have a brand new PowerTap C1 on a 2017 Roubaix. Based on everything I have read I have no reason to believe that either power meter is anything but very accurate.
"...the street finds its own uses for things"
Quote Reply
Re: 20 min FTP vs 60 min FTP vs 60 min NP [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Karl.n
May 11, 17 13:56
Post #11 of 11 (1522 views)
AutomaticJack wrote:
If your FTP is 150 then some of those suggestion "might work" but if you are pushing north of 300 and have a good aero position none of those suggestion are safe in a max effort condition. As far as Heckscher is concerned, to the best of my knowledge the wind never calms down there, and I ride there all summer. Add the light traffic, the ducks, and the stupid weekenders from the city and again, it is simply not safe or feasible. On Saturday I was running 31 mph and pushing only 270 watts. On the other side of the loop I was pushing about 350 watts at 11 mph.

Karl.n wrote:
AutomaticJack wrote:
South shore of central Long Island. To do a 20 min FTP test I would need about 8 miles or clear roadway. That just doesn't exist anywhere here. There is a park with a 4 mile loop but that is on the ocean so on a good day you can hold your watts into the wind and then usually spin out going with the wind. On a bad day you have to shift the front end to hold your cadence and then spin out going the other direction. Plus you have to go through the entrance/exit every loop - not a big deal at 15 mph but not real safe at 22 mph.


Oh now you're being a little silly. There are plenty of places near you to do an ftp test. Heckscher is fine and​ the wind will die down in the next couple weeks. Also Rocky point state park, Westbury or sccc, the roads South of the Grumman airport, or I've done uninterrupted 1 hour tests on 24-51-111. You might have to drive a bit but you live on Long island so you're used to driving. Mike at Babylon or Chris at Kreb Cycle know all the routes out your way.

Good luck.

I guess your experience is different than mine, but with an ftp above 350 I had no problem doing max efforts on Long island.
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