what the PTO set out to do Ironman is accomplishing.

PTO- pro traithlete organization was geared as a union effort of all elite long course triathletes to help support growth of the sport to lower tier pros and give bigger pay out and deeper.

now they are an elite group of 20-25 pros and Ironman is now the development program and main money spreader, sponsorship provider, and supplies way more content of races world wide.

The line Andrew M said was dead on " The pto supports 25 athletes and we have the obligation to support the other 900. "

I am not sure how PTO is going to grow, just like clash etc,

- few races so they only peak short term interest.

They don't do commercials so why sponsor the events.

They are too long for alot of folks to care and not fast enough for others grow an interest.

They will not get the cities to pay and give good race dates as they are not bringing in 2000 + other athletes / spenders to a tourism area.

If there big match ups get hurt or sick the media hype doesn't pay off.

lastly If they try to compete with ironman with age group racing they need to pull a ton of money out of the Pro purse to grow and that is against the whole purpose of what the PTO is right now.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Let's see how PTO's aspiration (voiced by Renouf) can be achieved by the contract terms acceptable to athletes. A contract requiring commitment to racing all the PTO races will not be signed by more than half the top female athletes.
Who may sign (doubtful they'll want to race all if that's the proposition): Gentle, Findlay, Pallant, Simmonds, Jewett, Lawrence, Lee, Sala, Byram (NB no Americans in that list). Now look at those that won't sign up (unless it's max 3): the top 22 from Kona plus matthews. Their absence will emasculate the PTO races and undermine their status/credibility.

https://stats.protriathletes.org/rankings/women
I can envisage a two tier contract design, getting the dedicated middle distances ladies (see list above) to sign up to a higher proportion and the athletes (in the top 20) who want to pursue long distance to sign up for (say) 'at least 3'.

I think that getting a pool of 16 under contract will mean that at least 10 contracted per race (+ ? 9 wild cards) will allow a 'season-long narrative' - remember these PTO races are contributing to the only World Triathlon endorsed long distance World Champion title.
I shall guess 4 of 7 to score, maybe last one (in Australia end November) offers a premium score and only clash is with Busselton early Dec, and sufficient recovery before Taupo mid Dec.

Well, today's the day I guess for an October announcement of everything :)

Pro Tri News seemed to hint last week that things aren't going so well with PTO. They were suggesting a partnership with Challenge as a way to save things. Also, sounds like something in southern California will be a part of the tour.

They are running out of time to get things right this year as pros and age groupers are planning their 2024 seasons. Even my local race organization put out their 2024 schedule today.

Yes please. Let me give you my money PTO.

Hahaha, touche.

What was the SoCal discussion?

PTO/Challenge Quebec would be cool.

Something tagging on to the Legacy Triathlon that USAT has put in the past few years in Long Beach. This is the event that will eventually morph into a World Cup/WTCS/Los Angeles Test Event/Los Angeles 2028 Olympics.

Someone needs to explain the concept of "underpromise, overdeliver" to the PTO leadership.

That'd be the only USAT event that makes sense, calendar-wise, for PTO to try to tag onto (if they're following that model).

But I thought they were trying to also have their own, branded, age group events at all their Tour events.

Knowing Sam -- I would imagine he's raging if they miss this proposed deadline.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

They put themselves in a bad negotiation position. Their potential partners know the PTO needs to make a deal. The PTO alternative to an agreement is....
1. Paying athletes to race other people's events.
2. Giving investor money back.

So if you're making a deal with the PTO and the PTO is paying athletes to show up, athletes to race other people's events, media to show up, marketers/content producers to promote; why shouldn't the actual race organizer make as much as all of them put together?

"Because it adds prestige to your event," the PTO says.

And the race organizer simply says, without me, you'll pay them to race my race anyway (rankings bonus), or have to give your money back to investors if you fail to have a race to produce media about -- the entire thing you were soliciting investors in the first place for.

Any more news on the 2024 PTO Tour schedule?

I have a front page story coming either today or tomorrow.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

PTO have announced this:
https://protriathletes.org/...res-for-bigger-2024/
. . . creating a season-long schedule and narrative, with consistent racing from the highest-ranked athletes throughout the year, is essential to take the sport to the next level and grow into the mainstream.


“We have been working hard to double our calendar from three events to at least six races in 2024" . . .

however, as several new host locations need further government approvals before being announced we won’t be announcing our full calendar until early in the new year
Contracts? For the top 16 men and top 16 women, still (allows for wild cards)?
More than 6 races? How many will athletes 'have' to race?
How many in US (Moench suggested she'd heard rumours of two but was very circumspect in her long interview with Kelly)?

My concern is what will be "early in the next year" to make the actual race calendar annoucement.....we talking Jan 11th or March 7th? And I get it, it's all the growing pains, but it kinda feels like the PTO can never gain any momentum; it's like it keeps stepping in the mud every time it tries to do the right thing.

(there's only so many times you have to do it right and if you consistenly have stumbling blocks your in a bad spot.....so I'm not saying this in a hateful way, but more in that this is another missed opportunity imo).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Missed this post...I mean, I've been saying this stuff for ever. But people on here hate Ironman so much they want to cheer on a group of people/a twitter account that has only been negative about Ironman...

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I'm cheering them on and would love if they succeed in their goals. However it's sort of like watching your favorite sports team losing a lot.

On the non-announcement announcement today, it seems like they have two races. They're clearly not waiting to announce them all at once as they've already announced the two. I assume if they had even a third that was for sure happening, they would announce it. I'll be quite surprised if we get to six.

I heard some rumors about certain middle east city buying the PTO license to host the race during the next years. We'll have to wait to see if it's true but it would make a lot of sense.

It's reasonable of them to withhold announcements until city contracts are signed. But at the same time there's no reason they can't say, we are looking at this list of cities and have preliminary commitments from the city to support the race there."

They don't need dates just yet. Just some venues people can be excited about.

If the tour is to have a 'Grand Final' (or is it a 'Grand Finale'?) late in the year it has to be slotted in between the men in Kona (24 Oct) and the 70.3WC in Taupo (14 Dec). Of course that assumes that the majority of the top 16 male athletes would wish to race Kona and Taupo, as well as having to race the PTO Tour final (assume contract will require that). I can't see PTO choosing a date that forces athletes to choose between the three most important races of the 2024 season.
A Middle East venue would be warm/cool enough at that time of year. We've just seen the 70.3 raced in Bahrain; Dubai would be fine too, and there have been the WTCS and SL finals at Neom (the most unlikely of that 3).

Exactly, and if you noticed, one of those races has been unofficially discontinued apparently due to the city not wanting to be closed down because of similar events happening. So I guess they've made a choice and it's not with IM.

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/dubai-vs-abu-dhabi
The first WTCS race of 2024 is in Abu Dhabi in March (immediately before the start of Ramadan, btw). It may be the relationship WT clearly have with Abu Dhabi would smooth the way for another 'World Championship' (PTO series decider) race. This could also be designated THE WT long distance final (for amateurs).
I suppose Bahrain could jump ship and throw their lot in with the PTO (how many year deal) but less likely than Dubai being the venue, given as you say, its 70.3 no show' in 2023. https://www.ironman.com/im703-dubai-register

is pto still working with itu or have they separated not a single mention of itu in their release

If I remember correctly wasn’t the last thing pto wanted to claim some regional euro champion with its race and itu was like nah and named some thing else. Either contracts weren’t finalized or one party jumped the gun (which may be why they are radio silent on anything but signed races)?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Think PTO, when describing the Ibiza race as also the 'European LD Championships', just mis-spoke (perhaps inebriated/euphoric with relief at being able to share another PTO Tour race date/venue).
The location/race for those ETU LD champs has been published as Challenge Almere-Amsterdam on 14 Sep . And it's the full IM distance btw, not some truncated MD 100km masquerading as 'LD'.
https://challenge-almere.com/...uropeanchampionship/
But, for the women, this is a fortnight before Nice where the best (proper) 'LD' women in the world will be racing. I guess for men they might get a few top 30 athletes.
However the race calendar is going to be chocker next year for any LD athlete trying to race the required/contracted number of PTO races AND the IM Series so I can't see Almere getting a look in for those folks.

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...our_Races__8860.html

To be patently clear -- I really want the PTO to be successful. I just don't know if they can ever get out of their own way.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter