I had heard the $100k number being thrown around in Nov but then I started to think it was total package including travel; For many there may be $20-$30k in travel costs for the full season. So for athletes to get $100k + PTO picks up the travel bill......that's a huge difference imo and that says a lot about them really putting the best product forward. They are doing everything in their power to make this work and put the best product to market. Major kudos to them.

Now just release the damn schedule.......to us mere peasants in the sport and general public.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I imagine Roth will be dumping a bucket load of $$$ in Magnus’ lap to be at that race. I’d be seriously shocked if Roth and Kona weren’t his 1A and 1B races this year.

I feel the same.

But I wonder if your ability to get a contract in 2025 is not tied to how well you did in 2024. So if you underperform, to do Roth and Kona, do you shoot your ability to do well in 2025 ?

Gotta admit, PTO has made things fun

Passing on $100k from PTO probably isn’t that hard for Magnus … barring an unexpected setback, he’s practically a lock for top 3 in the Ironman series, with a very good chance to win it. The income differential likely isn’t huge when you add it up.

---

Dimond Bikes Superfan

See...this is where I think it could be. I assume races will still be racing for $100k per? $50k per? I would be shocked if a win was less than 70.3 worlds honestly. So...not only is it $100k but race wins and then the PTO end of season points - you are getting the best points (unless the bonus goes away). There's a TON of earning potential with the PTO series I would think.

While I could see prize purses going down a bit - the series has advertised $100k for the win for a few years now - lowering it would definitely not sound as cool.

---

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Well, it's fair game in this age of women aren't paid enough and maternity leave is needed. I'm not disagreeing with either of those, but both of those positions tend to push against normal market pricing dynamics in the name of fairness.

So if a woman gets pregnant after her first race. She forgoes the contract? If a woman gets injured after the first race? If a man has anxiety and is seeking professional counseling?

I'm not saying in every one of the cases mentioned that PTO doesn't have the justification to say they are only going to pay for showing up to perform. But maternity leave isn't about paying to show up to perform, it's about investing in athletes over the long term to help competitive female pros can return to racing and be competitive.

It's really just a way to see how deep the commitment to the athletes go. That's the mantra after all. Ironman only cares about the bottom line, PTO is built around pro athletes and let the market get created around elevated performance.

It's also a way to see how far the PTO will let the athletes jerk it around as the opportunistically pick and choose races based on "injury".

If the 100k number is correct, it is a very very generous package and it will be silly to say no. Even if it’s only offered to the top 5 or 8?

PTO upping their game and I am guessing it is a make or break year for them to see returns

It will also be interesting to see what the prize money is looking like especially for those not in the Top 10?

Biggest loser will be Roth I feel. Most will look for an early qualifier for WC and skip Roth

Probably won’t see Anne Haug, LCB, RVB and others in Roth this year again

Is it fair game when talking about the organization that brought maternity leave into the sport? Your asking the committment level of the organization that is investing $100k salaries to the X top athletes in the sport of triathlon.....and unheard of occurance and you think they are going to somehow nickle and dime pro's if they don't fulfill their contract. You would be an idiot to try and see where the line really is with this financial setup. Not wanting to fly to US so you claim an injury to turn around a week later and race in Europe.....You want short term benefits or long term game. So maybe this is more of an IQ test to see who the idiots are and aren't in the sport by trying to "game" the system to make even more money then ever before. We've already seen athletes turn down the contracts, so my guess is the "race requirements" are the line in the sand with what you can and can't get away it. If you want to be a free agent go be a free agent. If you want to take advantage of $100k salary to start your year you'll take this contract and adhere to the standards. We've already seen big names both accept and turn down the offers. I think that's getting a little bit too much into the weeds, projecting when likely not deserved with the PTO based on their actions since they came into the sport.

They are going to use common sense with injuries.....they aren't going to broadcast to the world some pro using crutches to get to the starting pontoon to make sure they "start" even with a broken leg. That would be a terrible look. But you try and "game" the injury and go race outside races in same time frame....your PTO career will be very short lived....let's make sure we keep common sense here. The PTO is going to take care of the pro's (pssst $100k salary shows this). You want to try and take advantage of that...good luck working with the PTO long term. The athletes are the PTO's #1 asset. They are providing really good money to then have an fair expection of "you must race".....shocker of an idea- Organization pays you to then perform a service, and you then want to see how far you can push the limit....You won't last long in that organization. So I guess in the end it's an IQ test.

The PTO is going to take care of athletes who reciprocate almost assuredly. Try and somehow find the "line" that you can get away with and still get fully paid would be a foolish behavior.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

There isn't a schedule. What they have is irrelevant. If it is not published it doesn't exist. You've been in this game too long to just "take their word for it". I've been in sports too long to accept rumors. Because even when its published it can not exist with the click of a wrist.

And also based on this post it would be better to assume that Moritz Events Co has a "calendar" but half their event contracts aren't even drawn up.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

If the 100k number is correct, it is a very very generous package and it will be silly to say no. Even if it’s only offered to the top 5 or 8? //

Yes would be interesting to know how many are getting that offer, where the cutoff is, and if it actually jumps over some folks. I mean is someone getting that offer with a lesser ranking than someone that didnt? That would be a tough one to reconcile, but not out of the question to grab someone that didnt rank so well.


And we know of some folks that turned it down, do we know of others that took it already? Really interested in folks like Lucy, Haug, or Magnus, people that are kind of committed to doing several of the ironman races, but also could make bank in this PTO series.


I'm thinking they will take the PTO contracts and do as many of the ironman races as possible in-between. I mean if you are already doing Kona and Taupo in your season, doing 1 or 2 more half's might not be out of the question? And for someone that is at the very top in those WC's, probably still place pretty high in the series with the bonus points on offer there. Its a lot of racing for some, but a regular season for others. Figure Sam could pull it off, but he has to step up to the full distance at some point and do better than he has...

From what Tim mentioned on Talking Triathlon it sounds like Kat and Skye will be giving both series a go. I’m very much looking forward to being at Oceanside myself, but then also to see who turns up at Texas.

Given that the contract design and the money for it will be 'private and confidential' Ford is the type of guy who can't respect 'confidential' so these "maybes" is his way of leaking an extract of the set up, and revelling in knowledge superiority.

PTO will have offered contracts to the top ?16 athletes and require them to race at least X races out of the total and pay them. And if athletes don't fulfill that because, for example they're injured (or have to move house), then they will lose a proportion of the fee agreed. PTO is not 'forcing them to race'; it will be paying them, some up front, balance on contract completion\; key is clarity for both parties.
If an athlete doesn't take a contract if offered I doubt they'll be offered a wildcard to any of the races. Together with Kona/Nice the PTO races will be Diamond and the SOF will be sky-high. Conversely most other big races will be Platinum or Gold and the only IM which will have a top SOF is Texas. So if an athlete doesn't sign up to the 2024 PTO Tour they risk struggling to make the top 16 in the 2024 PTO rankings, with the knock-on effect of not even being offered a 'card' for 2025. So: surprise: the top 16 WPros have said 'yes, please'. Doesn't mean they're all going to be full on for every race.

How much? PTO seek to have a stable set of athletes racing most races. So if PT offered $100k that'd be a combo of a fixed sum plus prize money for each race (to encourage/reward competitive performances). Add to that the 'End of Year' bonuses: racing all those Diamond races will almost ensure that an athlete is well up there (top 20 by Dec 2024). $100k. Seems entirely reasonable: more for the athletes achieving top 8s in races (graduated; can't see #1 staying at $100 in this new environment) but Gentle still stands to pay a shedload of tax. She should establish residence in Monaco/Andora sharpish.

@rrheisler shared upthread that PTO will be arranging and funding athletes' admin at each race venue (see quote below: "travel support"). Travel will be 'as arranged' by the athlete: a source for funding that will be a long tail on the race prize money (for all athletes racing).

Are they confidential or are you intimating something. Contracts are always "confidential" but in sports their transparency is a huge part of how the world works unless you're an incredibly small sport that wants to play the shadow game. Moritz and Co should want to be transparent in their offer with the public as they really haven't been good about it. Good enough I suppose because of their cheerleaders here. I will say I've been a critic. But generally, a players union wants their players contracts public as they want to drive the cost of labor up for their members. The PTO claimed and still kinda masquerades as some type of athlete body, which it most definitely is not.

Playing the shadow game + being disorganized as hell has probably hurt them a lot. Their inability to get their stuff together should cause such a verbose post instead of haggling over confidentiality. If the party wants stuff to be confidential they would never be so idiotic as to share stuff with a member of the media because the only purpose for sharing things with the media is to leak it. Reporters are not your friends.

Their offer, for it to be truly serious for the desired exclusivity of 5 races let alone 8 would need to be 100k as a base. Prize money would need to be added on top of it. If they aren't guaranteed for injury that's just a dumb thing to do. You're asking for exclusivity. That's been very clear. If people are saying that they will do both there is probably a second type of contract that is for half + earn outs. Or they don't exist, because if they did we would have a roster by now.

ETA: It won't be the first disorganized sports organization that I thought wouldn't happen in 2024 to confirm a roster ahead of it's season. However, compared to field sport organizations that I watch, the amount of grace you give this organization is incredible. If you compare this to NWSL fans who are super mad about not having a schedule and the amount of wearing out they of the organization on social and forums you'd start to understand my point of view. If you compare them to the organizations they've tried to compare themselves to: WTA, PGATour...you'd see that they are not performing.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

There's not a single person in this thread that doesn't think the PTO is doing a shit job going into 2024. I know you like to chime in and hate on the PTO every chance you get and there's plenty to hate on, but it's also fun to talk about how awesome it would be for them to pull off the season they've promised. If they really get the top 16 women to race 6+ times this year that's fucking incredible. I don't think triathlon will ever appeal to a mass audience, but I love that they're giving it a go.

Paying on completion model sounds ideal but I would think the pros must commit to X number of races to start with otherwise it isn’t much of a contract? It will also give them some flexibility as well

Am not suggesting a 'pay on completion' model but a hybrid, with a baseline sum (staged payments) for competing, as contracted in X% of the races (gives flex for injuries/sickness/proximate other events), a per race element - plus each race's prize purse.
I said months ago contracting to the PTO Tour cannot specify exclusivity: that would be a restraint of trade. If athletes think they can compete in 6 (or whatever) 100km races AND slip in a few IMs plus Nice/Kona and Taupo then (again as I said before Christmas) the IM Series top few will be those who've managed a full series (3+2 including Nice and Taupo) fit and healthy.
Looking at WPro IM Series, no IM-capable athlete currently out of the top 20 will gain enough points to beat athletes like Haug, Philipp, Matthews, Moench if they manage to complete Texas, Nice, Taupo and an IM and a 70.3.with half decent performances. I identify those 4 because they (it is reported) have all contracted to the PTO Tour but I think they'll be wanting to race and win Nice. Taupo is an extra that they can tag on at the end of the year. The dilemma they face is undermining sensible preparation for Nice, which will be their A* race of the season.

  
I said months ago contracting to the PTO Tour cannot specify exclusivity: that would be a restraint of trade.

------

What rule/regulation/law is this referring too? I would think very few people are going to be able to race both series well and race the min number of IM's to secure a top ranking. I think the IM series is going to turn into a racing races to place hold / displace scores and so unless your just top of the class at the min races, you may end up having to be forced to "chase points". But then again $100k contract like that's fundamentally HUGE incentive to go all in on PTO. The only concern I would have as a top athlete- what will the actual prize purses be for races. We've already seen what PTO did when they doubled the races in 1 year, they changed significant pay changes except to 1st place. So I guess still alot to dicepher. If the $100k contracts were low key paid from the total prize purses the PTO has had in the past and the prize purses were signficantly changed again, the glamor of "paid salaries" while still amazing for a sport like triathlon will suddenly be a lot more picking holes at the PTO product process imo.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

at the end of the day winning the ironman worlds is still the one race that moves the needle the most in terms of income and in a way to peak there its kind of hard to focus on any series i would be suprised if lange was not to do roth and kona he has nver really done more than 2 good races a year . and laidlow seems to think the same way. and you would think that ditlev also wonders how he was so good in roth and then good beaten by lange in nice . so my guess would be non of them really will focus on any series but on kona. bit like few big hitters really focus on world tri series in a olympic year. and of course it can happen as we saw with blum and duffy but its not the norm .
at the same time if charles was not to defend her title in nice iam sure that would cost more than 100k for a pto contract.....

Hey,

I say this having seen the PTO contracts, race locations, prize money, series pot and knowing several that are and aren’t taking the contracts:

This thread is full of speculation and virtually no accurate facts.

The series looks good. The money is transparent amongst all the athletes etc.

Yes they need to release dates and locations.

Mark

,

You must be new here....

Haha unfortunately not. This is some of the worst I have seen though

If the PTO is only transparent behind the scenes with salaries, I think that is going to be a big misstep when they continue to talk about wanting to showcase the product on the same type of level like tennis / golf (major sports), etc. Pretty much every big time sport is "transparent" with basic salaries (player salaries is 101 level information for the sports fan to know). Now is it being hush hush because not all salaries are created equal? I wouldn't think all salaries have to be equal in a private business that likely isn't bound by equality/inclusion type of laws (like NCAA sports in the U.S. that get govt support by being required to be inclusive/equal). IE- if the # 9 ranked athlete (just making it up I have no clue of the rankings right now) has better social media than the #6, I think it would be fairly understood that what you bring to the table as a full package likely can be part of said contract.

So I would imagine for an organization that is wanting to accomplish what it wants to, disclosing contracts would be a no brainer. It then only looks bad optically that so much info is being held "behind closed doors". It causes imo a lot more speculation etc.

So it's an easy fix to solve speculation- provide the accurate facts that is in question, not keep it behind closed doors (that's not at you, that's at the organization level)

(ETA: And I'm only saying it's missteps because the PTO's goal is to take an professional triathon program to the public and either make it big time or it likely goes away...that's lofty as fuck goal and it seems like lots of expectations based on the funding they are getting....so when you want to have that type of lofty goals, your process will be "scrutinized". Not to shit on the PTO, but to sorta say, this type of move doesn't align with your goal along the process.....athlete salaries are basic known facts in almost all big time sports...the moment PTO announced their would be "contracts", you basically force yourself to disclose said financial figures at some point if you want to be looked as a legit organization in sports....that's not hating on PTO, that's understanding the sports climate we live in)

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

sounds like the topic for a great PTN episode (at the proper time)