As do I, but they deserve all the criticism for how they have handled things going into 2024.

Someone there needs to learn the premise of "under promise, over deliver."

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

This has to be a money problem they didn't anticipate.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

That's the correct strategy if you are selling a real product. But what if what you are selling hype? They are hyping up what they are going to do to attract media, public attention, athlete attention, investors, etc.
Their plan is not to build a sustainable event model. But to blow their name and product up as quickly as possible so investors realize some kind of brand value out of this thing, and more investment can be attracted in the process.

I actually don't think it's financial this time -- I don't doubt them when they say that they have the major operational hurdle of trying to have two entirely separate races (age group versus professional) versus the "typical" race model where the pro race is just a category of the existing event.

I disagree with their premise that they need to be separate, though. Start the pros an hour earlier than everyone else, and then work on the broadcasting side of making it safe enough to do with age groupers around. Or you need to move back to the model of having these races integrated with existing large-scale festivals, like they did in 2023.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

In general, regarding event locations - I personally think if they could pull of Milwaukee it would be a good event to repeat. Same with Dallas. They obviously need someone who will put the event on for them, and a city willing to shut things down for the "prestige" since they won't be getting thousands of age groupers. But both venues had minimal road closures. And the run and swim were in non-intrusive areas.

I'm surprised they haven't been able to repeat the work they put into just reusing those places (yes, Dallas needs to be in a cooler month).

For a city like Milwaukee, the area of the road shutdown did not affect the local community. It's perfectly out of the way of residents but still central to the city. And since they don't have to use the location all day long for multiple days to accommodate age groupers, it seems like it should be feasible. I hope they at least tried to renew there instead of dogmatically avoiding it because (if?) some primadona athletes complained.

One hurdle I see for them is how their course isn't the same as the age groupers, to keep things close to the broadcast. So they need to have a section of the course that can repeat multiple times, and if you're hammering that same section over and over on an increasingly crowded age group course, I can see the concerns. Plus, I do understand how if you're trying to show the superbowl of triathlon, it looks goofy if your bike race is happening while an chubby and bald but happy grandpa is seen waiving at the camera as the pros fly by. Personally, I don't care. But often media elitist types want to set themselves apart.

Still, I'd rather have a bald and happy grandpa on the camera at an event than no event at all. Which is what the PTO seems to be settling for.

dosnt look like there is a lot of hand in hand work going on lol

https://www.triathlon.org/...our_of_long_distance

Commenting on the partnership, World Triathlon President, Marisol Casado, said: “Today marks a significant milestone as World Triathlon proudly announces this ground-breaking agreement with the PTO. This collaboration signifies a powerful alliance that underscores our shared commitment to elevating the sport of triathlon to new heights. By joining forces, we harness the collective passion, expertise and dedication of both organisations to drive positive change and innovation within the triathlon community. Together, we have the opportunity to create a more inclusive, fair, competitive and sustainable landscape for athletes, fans and stakeholders alike. This partnership exemplifies the immense potential that emerges when organisations align their visions and resources, ultimately fostering a thriving environment for the sport we all cherish. As we embark on this journey together, we are resolute in our belief that by working hand in hand, we can steer triathlon towards a brighter, more exciting future.”

I've asked WT for a statement, repeatedly.

Crickets.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Regardless of not delivering on the promise of October, to now say early 2024 and nothing more is just PR lip service.

It would appear they're trying to scale too quickly and lack the moving pieces logistically to pull this off in a reasonable timeline. One would have hoped the partnership with World Triathlon would have facilitated a more straightforward path. Could bureaucracy be to blame ?

The PTO was created to support professionals and grow the sport, and now all this attention and lack of organizing is holding it back.

Hopefully they're working on something special for North America because these destination races like Singapore and Ibiza just don't have mass appeal.

Milwaukee is no longer an event location it’s now Atlantic City in Sept. The Dallas venue is early April timeline.

(They will continue to have to be apart of AG events to draw entry fees +not having to eat all the costs of running event)

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

In fairness the ironman series is 100 percent happening because of PTO

good job for digging in but i guess this should be part of your article to mention this ie the silence of world triathlon says a lot ...

And the PTO series happened because of Ironman. One seems to better understand the capacity of its business model. The significant sponsors that PTO hopes to attract in order to sustain its business model can't be impressed.

What's strange about the PTO is that Super League has been able to put on their events and make adaptions based on inevitable venue issues. There has to be a lot of places across the USA that you could put on a race, just not necessarily a high profile city downtown. Why can't PTO call up some race directors that put on local olympic distance races in smaller cities and wave some money and prestige at them? You could even take a place like Lake Meade in Nevada. That's an out of the way location with a built in run course and swim course with only a handful of road closures needed. Or the place in Madison where they hold the crossfit games -- that's got a lake and miles of stadium parking lot to make a bike & run course around. Everbank field in Jacksonville, FL. Right on the water, again miles of parking lot. Obviously, it's not just a matter of dreaming up a venue and voila, but I assume in some cases (like Madison, Jacksonville or any other stadium near water) if you can host the event on private property you can move things along pretty quickly.

Is it really impossible for an organization that is throwing millions of dollars at triathletes to negotiate a deal with a venue like that?

Super League can be done in a very tight space. In Malibu it's in a parking lot (don't event need to close any roads). Not possible with the 100k distance obviously.

It’s evident one of the priorities PTO wants is on site excitement as part of its production. Which means you are only getting that at 3k+ participant events, even if those fans don’t actually stay on site after their own race.

And I also don’t think PTO wants to in house produce races so they have to go with a big time race as they pretty much are only going to get so many bites at the apple.

If you actually think about it, there aren’t that many races that fit the description of what pto desires. Pretty much it’s IM events or usat produced nationals, very few other independent “big time” events are produced in the US these days.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Ya, I forgot about that. If they want cheering crowds it sounds like they should have made something work with Challenge. Strange.

Hate to be that guy. But their business model is not sustainable. I liked the Collins Cup as an idea. The comms part of the product needed significant improvement. But they've made tons of missteps in broadcast since they became more than a angry twitter handle. I don't really get why Moritz would continue pissing money away, I don't see an upside. If he wants to invest into a sport and own something, I would like to pitch something. Anyone got his number?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

While yes this delayed announcement is another side step in their movement, they have to get the races right. That will ultimately be their product to market and they only have a few more bites of the apple at it. So i think this delay more or less is for the tri geeks to argue over (and mind you it’s not a good biz success strategy) it’s not that big of a deal for their end game- the race product. This delay hurts their likely AG participation numbers and sorta makes them look more and more amateur hour within the sport (again it’s not how you want to come off). But to the lay sports fan, who will ultimately be the judge and jury if pto makes it…it’s likely a non issue.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I was just about to say same.

The PTO have brought overpromising and underdelivering to a new level. I'm old enough to remember the inaugural Collins Cup (which is not very old, LOL) with the underwhelming coverage (remember how they said they'd be displaying live heart rate and power stats?) and shortage of excitement.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Fundamentally, though, it's that age group participation (if you're going to do your own race series) that is going to drive the perception bus -- at least with existing industry partners as well as the triathlon public.

I didn't even delve into the years-long delays in getting the Collins Cup off the ground, or that they simply never brought it to the table in 2023.

I hope they make me look like an idiot. But...when it quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck...

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Yes my point is, tri fans / industry isn’t going to make or break PTO. It’s whether the general public (including the tri fan portion of that general public) actual buys in when their races go to market. This delay really has no effect on that. People even within tri are not going to NOT tune in just because we know what kind of behind the scenes mess it seems to be. We are going to tune in. They may lose the on site participation numbers, but many pros will still change their schedules to make it work.

So look how much they already have with investments, big time money is there. It’s now truly a matter, will it draw or not and these delays will almost zero influence on that. This is just a case of them having huge hurdles to get it there. But once the product (racing) is on air, none of that will matter. No one is going to care that they managed to seemingly screw up the details yet again. And that’s all because they have put huge money into it.

Now imo an 4 hour broadcast will not stick to the general public. An 4 hour broadcast with 4 lead changes is boring. Non draft individual racing is boring. That’s what will doom this type of adventure, not how they handle their business dealings.


I’m not disagreeing with anything you say. They are bungling this up every step of the way. But guess what- we all are going to buy into the hype every race week. So again it’s will the masses? No one is not going to tune in cus they suck at the behind the scenes. We will or won’t tune in because of the product the put in front of us.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

German Trimag just published that some athletes already know the schedule, some don`t:
https://tri-mag.de/szene/geduldsprobe-fuer-die-saisonplanung-pto-rennkalender-noch-ausstehend/
(in German)

The draft PTO Tour race schedule/calendar is not released while they get the final permissions (see PTO statement).
Tri247 take: https://www.tri247.com/...-calendar-delay-2024
But that information is really only actually relevant to the top 20 in the rankings.
So the "some athletes already know the schedule" will be those in the current PTO top 20. Otherwise "some don't [know]", would like to know, but knowing would not affect their 2024 race planning.

https://stats.protriathletes.org/rankings/women

Athletes surely won't sign contracts if they don't know when and where the races are. For other athletes, the race dates/locations are irrelevant: they ain't getting a start.
https://stats.protriathletes.org/rankings/men

The wildcards (4M and 4W per race) will go to likely lads and lasses from short course - van Riel and Iden for example, or the French quad (especially Luis once he realises he isn't getting a Paris start). Dickinson has just joined BMC Pro Tri (but he's in the mix for #2 in the GBR team (for the MTR)).
Not short course but Byram was #4 in PTO USA Milwaukee: she's another new member of BMC Pro Tri - can see her getting a start or two, though there will already be 4 Brits there (LCB Matthews Pallant and Lee).

And Brownlee would need a wildcard.
Schoeman after his last Olympics.

A local play for the US race(s) would be Kanute, but maybe having West, von Berg and Long there already would unbalance the start list. Guess Sanders might get a start - as top male Canadian - to make up the numbers but Laundry would be a better bet.
Maybe Kasper and Rappaport will get a wild card or two (US) to go longer once they realise their Paris chase is over? Otherwise Sodaro, Moench and True will be waving the Stars and Stripes at the PTO races, pending Knibb's reappearance post Paris.