10W ~= 1 second/km

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

And probably closer to 20 Watts vs the Conti GP TTs or the other top 5 tires mounted with latex tubes.

Besides the "time" savings, think about it like this...many rank-and-file age groupers ride IM or even 1/2 IM at 150-170 Watts. 15-20 watts is a HUGE % of the power you're putting out.

The measure RR differences are very real and if you compare back to back, you will definitely be able to feel the difference between a fast tire setup and something slower.

It drives me to distraction that so many of my local shops put people on Gatorskins, which are mostly unnecessary for most of these riders. I ALWAYS recommend the GP4000s as a current everyday training tire. Save Gatorskins and the like for your commuter bikes.

People are not rational when it comes to flats => Flats are a poor experience, bike shops don't want customers to have a poor experience. If they do get flats you can at least tell the customer that Gatorskins are very tough tires. I don't recommend Supersonic to the common triathlete for this very reason. It will reflect poorly upon me when they have a flat and they won't be rational about it.

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When would you start recommending ss tires? Im doing my first full in about a month and haven't decided on tires yet. Normally run gp4000 with latex tubes for training. Thinking about ss or perhaps tt. Was first thinking about Vittoria corsa speed but after reading the horror stories about flats, I'm not so sure.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

There are marginally faster but I run TT. Baby steps and all before I grow balls to run supersonics 😉

Yeah that def seems like a good option, was thinking though with sealant I might have the balls to run supersonics on raceday... If the time lost is <1min from a potential flat then I think it's worth the risk. Haven't actually tried sealant before, how quick does it work? Wondering if a better solution is to convert to tubeless

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I don't get the point of tire speed mattering in everyday training.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

For me it's not speed, instead it's the fact that life is too short to be riding around on tires that feel like a set of iron wheels. GP4000s are so much more enjoyable to be rolling around on and still pretty darn puncture proof.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

I ride pretty crappy Irish roads and after going from Conti 4-seasons to GP4s with latex I was honestly astounded at the improvement in ride quality.

Enjoyment and satisfaction matter. Good tyres make riding more enjoyable. Most people find higher speeds more satisfying. Also, plenty people, myself included, use the same equipment in training and racing. Why save my good equipment for the race? My most expensive wheels are my deep section Swiss Sides. I'm not going to waste that investment on a handful of rides a year. No, I'll use them out whenever I'm on my tri bike thank you very much and they're equipped with GP4000s and latex tubes because they're comfortable and relatively fast for both training and racing. GP4000s are perfectly reasonable for training. They don't puncture easily (I haven't punctured in over 7000km) and they don't cost much more or wear out much quicker than most other options. So why not use them?

They puncture more. Not easily, as you say, but more.

I like to just ride through glass in training and not even care (and I ride through a lot of glass where I live). And I especially don't like changing flats when it's below 40F or the roads are wet.

I don't notice this "ride quality difference" most people talk of (not saying it isn't real, but I've been riding/racing for decades, including racing on tubulars for 15 years and I guess if I really focus I notice it, but when I'm going, I don't).

But I come from a bike racing perspective where I was doing 40 or more events a year for a long time (not anymore). I wanted my race stuff at 100% and rode training wheels most of the time in training.

I can't notice, with my perception, a, say, 1mph difference in speed. You must have very accurate senses to feel that. My senses are quite dull in comparison.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

I'm a bit the same, i train with power and ride on schwalbe durano. I don't notice heaps of difference until i look at the average speed when i race on deeper rims and different tires. I'm not that bothered by speed in training but saying that the shitty tires and wheels are still plenty fast enough for a thrill.

I do think there's a very perceptible difference in comfort between say Gatorskins and GP4000s especially on rougher surfaces.

I'm looking forward to that nice tyre / wheel bump.

I train on 28mm Duranos with sealant at about 80psi on Shimano RS-10s. It's like a feather bed, and is quick enough to train on - if I can do what I need to do in training, with few if any punctures on crappy English roads and hang out the front on group rides, who cares?

Bring on race wheels though.

One area that tire speed can affect training is how big the gear is that you're turning, particularly if you're riding on the low or high edge of your cadence range at a given power output.



Also...the dude who notes he rides through a lot of glass on everyday rides....those are the people who need to be on Gatorskins or the like. The roads I ride are generally clear of that kind of debris, or wide enough to avoid it.

Man, I'm the LAST person on ST to whine and complain about niggling watt differences - I'm honestly convinced that for all except the tippy top KQ-bound AGers,aerodynamics mean squat, as the typical AGer loses so much time in suboptimal transitions as well as sitting up on the bike that it negates all their $$$$ power savings.

That aside, I will definitely say that having rode Gatorskins alternating with Conti GP4000s, there absolutely, definitely IS a speed difference that you will actually feel immediately when going from one to another. I tend to blow off most tiny differences (as above), but man, the first time I switched out my tires to gatorskins for training and rode it, the very first thing I thought was "WTF happened to my bike - it's like mud!" It actually took me a good 30 more mins of riding to realize that it was most definitely the tires (since I was in denial that I'd notice such a thing.)

I've also weirdly gotten as many flats on with my Gatorskins than Contis from direct punctures. I don't deny it's a super tough tire (the Gatorskin can be ridden on a trainer and it barely gets affected, whereas you'll wear down a race tire fast, including the Cont 4000) but I must have had bad luck, as I definitely did not notice a sudden decrease in puncture flats when I swapped to Gatorskins. I actually wonder if most of my Conti 4000s flats were from similarly big thorns or nails/staples on the road that would also would have punctured Gatorskins.

My tri bike has 25mm GP4000s and latex tubes on it with moderately wide rims and I run them at about 75psi front, 85psi back. I weigh 80kg (176lbs). My road bike has 25mm GP4000sII and butyl tubes (for descending safety) on narrow rims and I run them around 80psi front and 90-95psi back. They're both pretty comfortable but especially the tri bike. I've had no punctures on either since at least this time last year. I ride on a lot of bad road surfaces, although they're not especially bad for debris, moreso poor quality rough finishes and potholes.

Anyway, for most people I don't think heavy duty extra durable tyres are warranted, and I feel that using the same wheels/tyres for training and racing is perfectly normal and reasonable but I'm sure there are exceptions.

I'm just a grumpy old sod getting back into tri after 20 years... When I were a lad, race wheels were race day things.

When I started riding a lot I initially used Gatorskins, next I moved to Conti 4 Seasons and in the last 3 years exclusively either Michelin Pro4 SC or GP4000s/GP4000sII. I most certainly got most punctures with the Gatorskins and also got them occasionally with the 4 Seasons. I don't think I ever had a puncture during the lifetime of the one set of Michelin Pro4 SC I've used. They felt good (largely due to 25mm tyres actually measuring 27mm even on narrow rims) but weren't as fast as the GP4000s. I've had one or two punctures in 3 years of mostly using GP4000, and none in the last year.
Now, I'm not claiming this is massively relevant. Punctures are about luck as much as anything and I've had few enough punctures overall that the differences aren't statistically relevant. But it suggests that none of these tyres is terribly susceptible to punctures and in my case at least, puncture resistance doesn't appear to be a relevant selection criteria.

I start recommending them when people want to go as fast as possible and are dilligent enough to try them in training to get their confidence up. Ultimately if I can get someone to ride them in training I feel confident they will become quite happy with the puncture resistance.

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I definitely want to go as fast as possible, even though it's my first full and I'm pretty new to tri in general I'm hoping for a sub 10 finish. Where can you order ss? Could switch to them now to train on beforehand.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

People are not rational when it comes to flats => Flats are a poor experience, bike shops don't want customers to have a poor experience.


I agree on the fear and paranoia about flats. Many triathletes and rec road riders completely irrational.

We ride on Conti 4000S II's* for all our riding on various wheel-sets and in a given year with thousands and thousands of miles ridden between my wife and I we get on average 1 - 2, on-the-road flats each year. That's it! And we ride on some awful roads and even venture onto gravel from time to time.

As to your second point - Why the "bad experience". Changing a flat at the side of the road is a 2 - 3 minute exercise at the most and you are on your way.

*We have just started using the new Michelin Power tires on my wife's every-day wheels and they are riding great!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

For you it may not be a bad experience but you are not the average newbie triathlete. Changing a flat can range from many minutes, to hours, to calling a uber/cab/spouse for the regular joe. Have a couple of flats, go to a bike shop to get a replacement tire... the new bike shop says "no wonder you had so many flat, you were riding xyz"." They offer up gatorskins, yada yada, the original LBS now looks like a bad shop for recommending flat-prone tire.

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i have been riding conti 4k's, supersonics, and the new grand prix tt for the past 4 years. not a SINGLE flat (race and long registered century rides get latex tubes). i rencently rode some conti 28mm grand touring sports for a few hundred miles, will use them till they die since i already have them.

i think people are 1) riding too high pressure, 2) too fat, 3) poor bike handlers.