'the catch'

Dec 13, 05 8:56

Post #1 of 42 (3654 views)

Ok so this is a very bold statement which I have thought alot about and it makes sense. Everyone asks questions about the catch, now im not trying to say that alot of you are clueless when it comes to swimming, but cmon', you guys definitely don't spend alot of time in the pool. Unless you are pacing 1 minute to 1:10 100's in a 400 the catch is absolutely useless for you. Yes it's good to know proper stroke technique blah blah blah, but the fact in the matter is the catch is only effective if you know how to swim. Spend more time in the pool, lake, river, sea whatever, but if you're pacing 1:30 per hundred in a race don't worry about the catch, worry about bringing your 1:30 down to 1:20.

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan

Re: 'the catch' [Ted McGregor] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 8:59

Post #2 of 42 (3636 views)

Joe Montana to Dwight Clark! Niners win!!!

Re: 'the catch' [Hoagy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:00

Post #3 of 42 (3622 views)

i figured someone was gonna do that... i was just stating though, just a friendly tip from you local forum spiderman.

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan

Re: 'the catch' [Ted McGregor] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:01

Post #4 of 42 (3617 views)

Montana scrambles to his right, Clark is covered by "too tall" he tosses a perfect spiral to the corner of the end zone, Clark leaps, "too tall" falls,.....TOUCHDOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

49ERS WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is "the catch".

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Re: 'the catch' [Ted McGregor] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:08

Post #5 of 42 (3590 views)

In Reply To:

Ok so this is a very bold statement which I have thought alot about and it makes sense. Everyone asks questions about the catch, now im not trying to say that alot of you are clueless when it comes to swimming, but cmon', you guys definitely don't spend alot of time in the pool. Unless you are pacing 1 minute to 1:10 100's in a 400 the catch is absolutely useless for you. Yes it's good to know proper stroke technique blah blah blah, but the fact in the matter is the catch is only effective if you know how to swim. Spend more time in the pool, lake, river, sea whatever, but if you're pacing 1:30 per hundred in a race don't worry about the catch, worry about bringing your 1:30 down to 1:20.

I have no idea WTF you are talking about (or rather, why you are saying that). Exactly how are you supposed to work your 1:50 pace down to 1:20? Especially if body positions and rotation are already very good?

BTW, 1:20 is very fast, near the first outta the water any any event. You sure you want that strict of a standard?

**************
Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

Re: 'the catch' [Ted McGregor] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:09

Post #6 of 42 (3587 views)

I believe the catch is an important part of the stroke. It does not matter if you avg 1:30's or sub-1:00 per 100's. What I think is - too many triathletes get caught up in all the technical aspects of swimming faster. So, I guess I agree on some level with you. I also am a big believer in keeping it simple. There is a notion out there that by only doing drills and focusing on technical aspects of swimming...presto chango! you will be fast in the water. I wish it were that simple...but, alas, it is not. Just like cycling and running, you have to put in the time. It is how you spend that time, again just like the bike & run, that determines your speed & endurance in the water.

Re: 'the catch' [Ted McGregor] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:11

Post #7 of 42 (3570 views)

Learning how to set up and hold on to the front end of your stroke will take the stress off your biceps tendon and prevent sore shoulders. It will alsohelp you get to 1:10s.

DougStern

Re: 'the catch' [MattinSF] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:12

Post #8 of 42 (3566 views)

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Re: 'the catch' [Mac] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:14

Post #9 of 42 (3549 views)

ohh yes definitely, however, quitefrankly the catch should be the absolute last thing you should ever work on. You can benefit alot more from working on drills than doing a practice specifically to work on the catch. However alot of swimmers also forget about their catch after about 200 meters, but the point im trying to put accross is that people who are having difficulty in the swim portion of their race, shouldn't worry about 'the catch' they should be more focused on drills and proper form wrather than working on a technical aspect beneficial to those that already have proper form and proper stroke technique.

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan

Re: 'the catch' [last tri in 83] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:15

Post #10 of 42 (3540 views)

haha. i burst out laughing.

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan

Re: 'the catch' [Aztec] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:16

Post #11 of 42 (3533 views)

If you are doing 1:50 per 100, then you are no longer the slowest swimmer on this forum. I am! Hand over the title! ;) Oleander

Re: 'the catch' [DougStern] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:39

Post #12 of 42 (3460 views)

So, how do you do that? I've had people look at my stroke and tell me I've got great rotation, body postion, entry, etc, but I have trouble holding 100's faster than 1:45, they tell me I'm slipping water. I really, really try to think about pointing my fingers down, pushing the water back, etc. What else can I do to work on this?

Re: 'the catch' [Oleander] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:48

Post #13 of 42 (3429 views)

In Reply To:

If you are doing 1:50 per 100, then you are no longer the slowest swimmer on this forum. I am! Hand over the title! ;) Oleander

Hey, the year's not over yet, and the official nomination process hasn't even begun. I'm MCing the event this year, and will start a thread at the appropriate time to kick off the ceremonies. :-)

**************
Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

Re: 'the catch' [Aztec] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 9:53

Post #14 of 42 (3417 views)

In Reply To:

BTW, 1:20 is very fast, near the first outta the water any any event. You sure you want that strict of a standard?

Not really...especially in a wetsuit. Its a decent pace for IM, but not fast.

Re: 'the catch' [Number5] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 10:02

Post #15 of 42 (3394 views)

1. Swim more - swim faster - start with short repeats
2. Use your lats when you pull, not just your shoulders
3. Accelerate your hands thru your stroke (* a biggie *)

Re: 'the catch' [Flanagan] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 10:10

Post #16 of 42 (3362 views)

Quote:

In Reply To

BTW, 1:20 is very fast, near the first outta the water any any event. You sure you want that strict of a standard?[/reply]Not really...especially in a wetsuit. Its a decent pace for IM, but not fast.

I totally agree with you, but we must also consider yards v. meters. 1:20 for 100m is a lot fast than 1:20 for 100 yards. It's all about units (just ask NASA - Science is hard).

as for the main topic, I'm torn. I think a swimmer needs a good amount of strength/speed to be able to swim technically, but technique is a very important factor to swimming fast.

Personally, I think a person has to go to the pool and build strength first, with little regard for technique. Once comfortable with the water, get help with technique to get fast (then work on strength/speed more before refining technique again). I would certainly say that no one aspect is mastered before starting another though.

mckenzie

Re: 'the catch' [mckenzie] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 10:13

Post #17 of 42 (3345 views)

Personally, I think a person has to go to the pool and build strength first, with little regard for technique. Once comfortable with the water, get help with technique to get fast (then work on strength/speed more before refining technique again). I would certainly say that no one aspect is mastered before starting another though.[/reply]

I like the above statement and agree 100%. Just swim first, then technique, then strength/speed again. Not that I should give out ANY type of swimming advice...

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Re: 'the catch' [MattinSF] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 10:14

Post #18 of 42 (3345 views)

In Reply To:

Montana scrambles to his right, Clark is covered by "too tall" he tosses a perfect spiral to the corner of the end zone, Clark leaps, "too tall" falls,.....TOUCHDOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

49ERS WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is "the catch".

I think that Emerson Walls was covering Clark... "Too Tall" was a defensive lineman...

Re: 'the catch' [Ted McGregor] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 10:16

Post #19 of 42 (3330 views)

Ted, how can I say this without being harsh... uh... you're WRONG ;-)

But don't worry about it, "fast" swimmers like yourself don't know why they're fast anyway, that is why often, not always, are useless to give advice to beginners.

-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke

smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Re: 'the catch' [last tri in 83] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 11:07

Post #20 of 42 (3257 views)

---
"You'll find a slight squeeze on the hooter an excellent safety precaution, Miss Scrumptious."

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." -- Richard Feynman

Re: 'the catch' [last tri in 83] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 11:12

Post #21 of 42 (3235 views)

---
"You'll find a slight squeeze on the hooter an excellent safety precaution, Miss Scrumptious."

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." -- Richard Feynman

Re: 'the catch' [mckenzie] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 11:15

Post #22 of 42 (3224 views)

BANG ON!

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan

Re: 'the catch' [Ted McGregor] [ In reply to ]

PatchesMcHooley

Dec 13, 05 11:21

Post #23 of 42 (3204 views)

i don't agree. i'm a relatively new/not fast swimmer and in the last few weeks have spent much time thinking about the catch when i'm in the pool. the first time i really thought about catching the water, i did the same workout i'd done 1 week before, and all my times were faster, without changing anything else. it has helped me a lot to imagine that i am grabbing the water.

Re: 'the catch' [smartasscoach] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 11:21

Post #24 of 42 (3204 views)

no not entirely, i had this discussion with mark avan like an hour ago.
People need to learn how to swim properly first before they start working on advanced techniques, without proper guidance, training, and development, people trying to learn how to swim properly will experience more problems and complications in the end.
Basics first, drills and muscle toning next, proper techniques, advanced techniques.
Like i also said, I was making a very bold statement, and yes as a coach you may have some doubts about the statement i made, but it's not as if you're going to teach someone fairly new to swimming the catch are you?

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan

Re: 'the catch' [Xenu] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 05 11:22

Post #25 of 42 (3202 views)

********************************

Steve C.

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