its b/c clipless pedals [and the shoes they require] are totally euro stylin!

dude, don't you learn anything from this board? Its all about pimpin your ride! ;-)

......because they force you to buy other cycling equipment; shoes, cleats..... and just another item to "upgrade"...

.....ever wonder why if SPD's were so wonderful (think back a few years) then why do the new ones look so much like Look's.....oh yea, you get to pay Shimano for Patent rights as opposed to Look.........wait that only saves Shimano money since they would have to pay for the Look patent (the original Shimano clipless pedals).....

......oh yea, cleats/clipless pedals keep your foot from flying off......

......aren't straps no longer allowed in road races (for quite a few years now).............

In theory it gives a more effecient pedal cycle by allowing you to push pull more effectively than with the clipped pedals.

Just to keep your feet in position.

Look, wasn't it Walton that just did a bike leg where he was the fastest, and he did it in running flats because he forgot his cycling shoes? I agree with Dr. Coggan, that you don't HAVE to pick up your foot to be fast. But, if you interviewed Walton (or whom-ever it was) and asked him if he would have been faster with cycling shoes on, so that he COULD pick up at least some, I'll bet he'd say, "Yes, I would have been even faster with my cycling shoes."

Where I disagree with Dr. Coggan is that training to pick up (using PowerCranks) is pointless. Here's a quote from Lance Armstrong's book, Every Second Counts, page 157-158: "Aerodynamics are different for every type of road, and for mild pitches, steep climbs, and long grades, so I worked on strengthening my hip flexors and my lower back, until I could hold certain positions-because the smallest thing, like moving your hands on the handlebars, could make you three seconds slower over 25 miles." Mr Armstrong thinks hjp flexor strenth was important enough that he mentioned it specifically.

PowerCranks strengthen hip flexors in a way that mimics their use while on a bike, i.e., not like doing knee lifts with weights in the gym. It's a cycling-specific exercise. Apparently, it very closely approximates a running-specific exercise, too...because the run usually benefits very quickly when PC training is initiated.

Do you have pick up to ride fast? No. Do you ride faster when you have stronger hip flexors? Lance Armstrong thinks so. I have no reason not to believe Mr. Armstrong.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Are you freaking kidding me?


A few weeks back I asked the board if I'd get more benefit from a clip on aero bar, or clipless pedals. Everyone single response said clipless pedals, no question about it. Just the other day, some other poster was told that clipless pedals in a weird sprint race would still be faster than running shoes, even though the race had 16 transitions.

Now, today, clipless pedals are just bling-bling? Or a Shimano conspiracy to take more of my money?

People, I just dropped $165 on new shoes and pedals. Someone needs to reassure me, here.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

In theory it gives a more effecient pedal cycle by allowing you to push pull more effectively than with the clipped pedals.

Right, that's what I thought. What I'm asking is, for those of you out there who think that it doesn't matter how you pedal, why wear clipless pedals?

Rip, or whatever the name of the day is, if it's just as good to mash the downstroke, do clipless pedals offer any real benefit?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Here is why you use clipless pedals. Comfort.

I am riding in my running shoes right now and is limiting me to about an hour a ride.

So we use stiff soled shoes to support the foot. Clips and straps work to keep the shoe on the pedal. Now I don't look back at old cycling technology with wonder like some dweebs do. I rember the straps and cage pinching your feet and being a pain in the ass to get in and out of. My first pair of Looks where like a great orgasm.

Comfort rules and stiff soles and clipless pedals are comfortable.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

$165 for shoes AND pedals? You got off easy! In any case, as long as your shoes are nice and stiff, you got your moneys worth. IF they ever invent a running shoe platform that is stiff as s*&t, and really holds your foot down (hmm maybe with a little attachment at the front and back of your running shoe), I will be the first to trade in my clipless pedals. Ihate the swithching shoes part of transitions that much!



Da bum

"People, I just dropped $165 on new shoes and pedals. Someone needs to reassure me, here. "

You will never ever go back. You will see the coming of the glory. Trust me.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

 "I asked the board if I'd get more benefit from a clip on aero bar, or clipless pedals."

You should really get both as they each have an advantage. Personally I tend to think the aero bars might be the most benefit.

If you can get a hold of the book "High Tech Cycling" 2nd edition by Edmund Burke Chapter 4 is dedicated to cadence/pedaling and goes into great detail, even covering the theory behind PC and RC's.

You should really get both as they each have an advantage. Yeah, and they each have a price tag, too. What I should really do is just win that Guru they're raffling off at IMCDA.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

You got the shoes and the pedals. Just save up for a few more months and get a pair of Profile Centuries. Low level gear functions just the same as the expensive stuff.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"they each have a price tag, too."

That's true, but I buy a lot of stuff either secondhand or discounted on ebay. You can save a lot that way.

Chill for a second. I was not going to go into the smooth pedalling thing. If you want my opinion, and be careful..now you've asked.....

There is no question that pedalling "in circles" is the most efficient means of transferring the force applied to the pedals into force applied to the ground. Furthermore that a lot of riders do not pedal like they claim they do. In fact they are wasting alot of energy doing something that is totally ineffective. (how's this for a can of bugs....I bet I lift the rock and find a few with this one.....)

I want you to think about a couple of things;

1. What are the mechanical joints about which the legs move? Hip, knees, ankles. I think for the most part we can exclude the ankle since it more than likely doesn't produce much force as much as transfer it.

2. Hip to Knee - vertical force production only. This one is easy...during the downstroke.

2. a. If you apply force through these joints, when is it most effective? I posted a topic about a week or so ago that provides formulas that can be entered into Excel to determine this. But let me help out.... from around 45 - 135 degrees or 225 - 315 degrees ( 0 degrees being same as 12:00 position). Much force applied to the pedals prior to this or after this does little. Simple math.

3. Knee to pedal (we are not considering the ankle) - if you are sitting - it is pretty much horizontal forces only - So please someone explain why your quads hurt if you are not attempting some form of horizontal forces?!?

3. a. If you apply force through these joints, when is it most effective? that would be 315 - 45 degrees / or 135 - 225

4. Look at the Coyle study (don't just read it look at the data) and you will find that the subjects all applied maximum horizontal forces at 90 degrees. I thought about this for quite a while. Then it dawned on me why..... They were trying to straighten their legs during the downstroke!! Oh please look at the vertical force production around 180 degrees.

5. You need clipless pedals to keep your foot from flying off the front of the pedal, because you are pedalling wrong.

6. Think about why these PC'ers claim reduced quad stress.........I wonder if it could be to them pushing down as opposed to them straightening their legs??

7. For those who are excel guru's create the spreadsheet and see for yourself. Interprolate the numbers off the Coyle study and see what "could" be gained if muscle timing was changed.

flame suit on and running away trying not to come back.......



OK, history lesson.....Look and Time pretty much had the market cornered on clipless pedals. Shimano had the OEM components. They needed a pedal. They built their's under patent from Look. Broke into the pedal market and then introduced SPD's.... Lance's old favorite pedal was the Look cleated Shimano pedal. But now the Dura Ace pedal has cleats very similar to the Looks. But then again that doesn't matter since most of the OEM has been secured by Shimano. Not a conspiracy, but a marketing tactic.

Bling, Bling are the phil wood hubs on my tandem; old school mavic hubs & cranks on my standby road bike...

Someone needs to reassure me, here.

You'll look much cooler using drop bars and clipless pedals than aerobars and running shoes.

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You'll look much cooler using drop bars and clipless pedals than aerobars and running shoes.

Obviously, we've never met.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I didn't say you'd look cool. Just cooler than the alternate version of yourself. ;)

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Hello there,

I don't know if my experience quite approached Mr. Tibbs orgasm, but my first ride on clipless pedals in Salt Lake City traffic sure lowered my stress level. I used clips and straps for nine years and remember finishing many a ride, pulling my feet out and then experience that numb-can't-feel-your feet feeling.

For what its worth, I still ride the old white Bernard Hinault first generation LOOKs in training and switch to the Shimano-looks for races. They work fine.

Besides avoiding numb feet and being much safer, clipless pedals keep your foot in place at high rpm.

As for PowerCranks, I don't know if they make you more efficient or what, but they sure recruit some other muscle mass to help in the pedaling process. Spreadloading the work seems like a good idea to me. I don't think there is any doubt that the major portion of the power comes from the downstroke, but PCs allow you to put all that power into moving the bike forward instead of pushing your other leg to the top of the pedal stroke.

Chad

Same reason people used toe clips. It stops your feet from slipping off the pedals. It allows you to just forget about your feet and pedal. While the real power is on the downstroke, you still need to keep the foot following the pedal around the whole circle, and that takes energy and focus if you're not clipped in.

Why clipless instead of clips? Because you can't get out of clips quickly once they're cinched down. Clipless is safer.