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'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein
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Hello All,

'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein sounds like an interesting book.

http://www.nytimes.com/...emc=edit_th_20130813

Excerpt:

Where Scott performed like a natural, David was a “talentless duffer” who would “chew through a crowbar” to gnaw a quarter-second off his time. “I just had to be tougher than him, I thought, because I didn’t have the talent,” Mr. Epstein writes.



But what exactly differentiated the two runners? Was Scott endowed with some gene for speed? Could David’s grit and determination overcome his apparent lack of innate ability? Where does the intersection between talent and practice lie?


These are the questions Mr. Epstein seeks to answer in this captivating book, which began as a feature in Sports Illustrated, where he is a senior writer. The book’s title misleads, since he forcefully argues that no single known gene is sufficient to ensure athletic success. His answer to the question “Nature or nurture?” is both.


If that sounds like a hedge, it isn’t: instead, it’s a testament to the author’s close attention to nuance. He approaches his subject like a scientist, stopping to examine the uncertainties and taking care not to overgeneralize.

Cheers,


Neal


+1 mph Faster
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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The Truth About Exercise With Michael Mosley is on PBS

A bit of talk about Genes. Might be useful for some.
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, Neal! I'm David Epstein, and I'll be doing an AMA about the book at 7pm ET on reddit. Hope you can make it!
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [EpsteinD] [ In reply to ]
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Wow. Welcome to Slowtwitch.
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [eganski] [ In reply to ]
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eganski wrote:
Wow. Welcome to Slowtwitch.

Absolutely x2. Welcome, we look forward to your contributions!

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [EpsteinD] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for popping by David. I'm about 90% through the book, it's a fantastic read. Please keep up the twitter exchanges with @sweatscience and @ pstriathlon, also semi-regulars on this forum.


And please ignore An Old Guy. He sets sports science back decades.
Last edited by: kkoole: Sep 6, 13 14:15
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [kkoole] [ In reply to ]
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kkoole wrote:
@ pstriathlon, also semi-regulars on this forum.

Paulo no longer posts here.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [EpsteinD] [ In reply to ]
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David,
I have to ask about your analysis of Paula Radcliffe, because I think it was either intentionally misleading, or you just made an honest mistake. I'm not sure, maybe you can clear it up...

You try to explain her "under-performance" in the Beijing Olympics as a heat issue. It seems to much more likely that her under-performance was related to a fracture in her femur, just 3 months before the games. This surely derailed her training, and negatively affected her ability to sustain a gold-medal marathon pace for 26.2 miles. Yet, you make no mention of this femur fracture, because it doesn't fit into the narrative that you're trying to construct, which is that tall athletes can't succeed in the heat. Why did you do that? (and btw/ there are plenty of examples of taller endurance athletes succeeding in the heat... see Peter Reid at Kona, Rasmus Henning at Abu Dhabi, Chrissie Wellington at Kona, Michellie Jones at Kona, etc..)

Don't get me wrong, I think it was a fascinating book with some interesting points, and I made my way through it in about 4 days. But this example of "narrative fitting" seemed a bit misleading and frustrating.

thanks,
Doug MacLean
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [kkoole] [ In reply to ]
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Definitely!

I forgot to mention the date of the AMA: it's this Monday (9/9) at 7pm ET.

Thanks for the warm welcome!
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [Doug MacLean] [ In reply to ]
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All of your counterexamples are triathletes, whose running pace is lower so heat is less likely to be a limiter. For marathoners, heat as a limiter is pretty well established for taller athletes.




Doug MacLean wrote:
David,
I have to ask about your analysis of Paula Radcliffe, because I think it was either intentionally misleading, or you just made an honest mistake. I'm not sure, maybe you can clear it up...

You try to explain her "under-performance" in the Beijing Olympics as a heat issue. It seems to much more likely that her under-performance was related to a fracture in her femur, just 3 months before the games. This surely derailed her training, and negatively affected her ability to sustain a gold-medal marathon pace for 26.2 miles. Yet, you make no mention of this femur fracture, because it doesn't fit into the narrative that you're trying to construct, which is that tall athletes can't succeed in the heat. Why did you do that? (and btw/ there are plenty of examples of taller endurance athletes succeeding in the heat... see Peter Reid at Kona, Rasmus Henning at Abu Dhabi, Chrissie Wellington at Kona, Michellie Jones at Kona, etc..)

Don't get me wrong, I think it was a fascinating book with some interesting points, and I made my way through it in about 4 days. But this example of "narrative fitting" seemed a bit misleading and frustrating.

thanks,
Doug MacLean



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
All of your counterexamples are triathletes, whose running pace is lower so heat is less likely to be a limiter. For marathoners, heat as a limiter is pretty well established for taller athletes.

Good to know you know exactly what David was thinking. Now we are saved the actual explanation.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [Doug MacLean] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Doug, I'll answer this one the best I can, then I'm afraid I may leave the forum for a bit, so please don't think I'm ignoring you. Just trying to keep up with my day job!

I first heard the Radcliffe/heat argument in a presentation by Tim Noakes, and then saw it again--specifically with respect to Paula--in the Olympic Textbook of Medicine, which is essentially a compilation of peer-reviewed chapters. I first became aware of the issue that elite marathoners can be limited by heat dissipation when I came across it in Lore of Running. And while there are examples of larger runners succeeding in heat (and "larger" in this case often means surface area relative to volume), they are still limited by heat dissipation, and that means smaller runners can be advantaged. (Jim Reardon of U Wisconsin has a nice and succinct presentation that discusses this online.) With regard to examples of bigger runners succeeding in heat, it is, of course, relative. How hot was it, and where there 4'11" competitors who were at that level who could possibly make the others seem unsuccessful? Perhaps, perhaps not, I don't know. The fact is, unless they are on amphetamines, the athlete will slow down or stop when core temp is about 104 or so. If there is no competitor (or combination of heat and humidity) who can push a pace that gets a larger runner to that temp while they themselves are not there, then the size disadvantage would not be as relevant. So it is by no means an argument that a larger runner cannot succeed in heat, only that, other things being relatively equal, a larger runner is at a competitive disadvantage compared to smaller runners if the pace is fast enough and conditions hot enough that heat dissipation becomes a factor. I certainly see and appreciate your point, but given that I saw the exact argument with respect to the exact same athlete made by scientists who work with elite athletes in presentations and in scientific literature, I felt that it was a fair and interesting one to raise. I hope that seems reasonable. ....I'm also glad to discuss more, but I hope you'll excuse my absence from the forum for the near term as I try to catch up with the work I've put off when the book came out!
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Fair enough...

Although it's an interesting question, because heat regulation may actually be just as important for long-course triathletes as for marathoners, as they're out on the course for 8-9 hours, as opposed to 2-2.5 hours, and they're starting the marathon with a core temperature that's already significantly elevated. I'm not saying I know either way, but it's an interesting question, and you shouldn't immediately dismiss the importance of temperature regulation just because the pace is slower.

(and you also have to consider that my counterexample are all triathletes because I can list strong run performances of tall triathletes in the heat, off the top of my head. I don't know elite marathoners well enough to be able to list them off the top of my head... there very well may be a long list of taller marathoners performing well in the heat, I just can't name them off the top of my head)
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [EpsteinD] [ In reply to ]
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Great book. 1/2 way through. Thank you :-)

Mike
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Re: 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein [EpsteinD] [ In reply to ]
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Great book David. I am halfway though it and I am advising my friends, coaches and family all read it. I run a 7 minute mile right now.
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