so the issues is that these shoes are soft and tall. If your gate is altered and ankle stability is not good you are going to get injured. These injuries are then magnified by the lack of prep miles that people put on the shoes due to cost and milage the shoe can take.

if I were going to invest in a pair I’d get my gait looked at and figure out where you’re at and then start looking at which shoe fits your needs the most.

the idea of these in regards to injury prevention is they are much softer that classic racing flats so impact for those longer races is lessened.

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ART, MDT, DNS, MPI, FST

I am crazy prone to injury, usually lower leg. Stress fractures are my go-to, but I dabble in the usual strains, pulls, and tears.

Since switching to Zoom Fly for training and 4% for racing (admittedly only 2 months ago) I have been injury free. I would normally have gotten injured by now in the same time period.

I do NOT consider myself bio-mechanically strong/sound at all, and have terrible balance.

Anecdotal, to be sure. YMMV..

I think I'm one of those people. I did 7.6 mile fast run yesterday and my left calf is very sore. My calves don't hurt when I run with Hoka Roncons. Of course, I PRed with Next%, but these shoes definitely need some good control. I was able to feel hard carbon plate for the last 2 miles and it hurt!! I felt the same way with 4%. Next% was slightly faster than 4%, but I remember my toes felt more comfortable with 4%.

I am bio-mechanically ungifted. For ~25 years I have had a ankle issue which I could never completed resolve. It is/was a pronation issue. I have always have to have a good arch support - orthotics, Superfeet, etc - just to get by. So, I am in our local Fleet Feet and ask to try on the Next % just for kicks - they felt good. I asked if the regular 60 day return policy applied to these because I fully intended on trying and returning. I can't even put my orthotics in due to the unremovable insole. Lo and behold . . . no more ankle pain - none. Really quite remarkable and I may be an anomaly, but I am stocking up on these. Also, I have well over 300 miles on my first pair and still going. Personally, I think the secret sauce is the PeBax form. Really unreal. On the flip side, I really haven't seen more speed but I run quite slowly these days.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Yeah my toes are significantly more comfortable in the 4% than the Next%. The Next% feels like I'm wearing tight snakeskin.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I have Morton's toe (second toe is longer than the big toe). Historically, I was always losing toenails on my 2nd toes as my running volume increased (especially if I did any sort of trail running). When I switched to Hoka's that magically went away and I hadn't lost a toenail in a couple of years. I ran a HM yesterday in Vaporfly 4%'s and I think I bruised the 2nd toe on my right foot to the point that I'm going to lose it. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. It usually only hurts for the first couple of days after I bruise it, but it then turns black and falls off and takes several months to grow back so it's just gross - especially in the summer when I'm in flip-flops more.

Not a calf strain specifically, but I got the worst blisters of my life from a new pair of 4%s while doing Indian Wells 70.3 in December. Even with socks on, all the turns on the course caused a ton of rubbing and I lost a good 2-3" of skin on the arch of both feet

I'm not sure if you have read Brett Sutton's latest opinion piece on these shoes?

https://www.spiritmultisport.com/...e-vapor-help-you-fly

Personally having run in both the Next% and the 4% I think he is talking more so about the Next%

Calves are my weak point as well and I think the Next% definitely puts more stress on your calf but is a more stable shoe. the 4% that I prefer is less stable but feels nicer at speed to me as a heal striker. As for both shoes I don't get any 'free speed' until I am running at speed and that is around 4'/km for me.

They are both definitely a softer shoe so general soreness and some injuries I believe can be reduced but the 4% to me is very unstable at slower speeds and I think you are at risk of ankle or lower leg injuries. I have only run one IM in the Next% and the calf tightness and pain I had was concerning and I was worried it may pop. The softness of the shoe was nice but I think it gave me no 'free speed'.

I like the review of the 4% here...

https://fellrnr.com/wiki/Nike_Vaporfly_4%25

I do know that some people are struggling with injuries with a few models however i also know for a fact that a lot of the Nike pros are wearing them every day. Not just for workouts or long runs but even on easy days they are wearing a next%. personally if i could get the shoes free i would do the same because the argument is you can put in more high quality work at top speeds.

I would recommend you just try it out. if you feel something start to flare up or fear an injury then you can give a kick ass gift to a friend with the same shoe size. If not, maybe you can capitalize on that free speed you were talking about.

cheers,
https://www.strava.com/athletes/2589118

My wife is a PhD clinical biomechanist, specilising in the foot and lower leg, as well as previously being a high level athlete in her youth. Her view is that any of the 'high' rise shoes, are likely to increase foot and leg injurys in the long run (boom boom), as well as creating issues further up the chain. Simply being that they intriduce another movable element between your foot / leg and the ground. They essentially amplify the job that the foot and leg should be doing.

The limited lifespan of the Nike shoes is probably hiding the fact slightly as people aren't using them that regulalry just saving them for races.

"The limited lifespan of the Nike shoes"
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I am interested in what this means and where the information comes from. Are you talking about the Vaporfly or something else? As cited in an article linked above and the person experiences of people who have really run in them, including me, the lifespan is quite good. It is interesting that a lot of people who share opinions on these shoes haven't even tried them. FYI - I train and race in them. I have always been injury prone, but have not had an injury since wearing them. Again, I could be a complete anomaly.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Not stating an opinion one way or the other about lifespan. But, and it isn't just you here, but surely we need to be more specific when talking about injuries. Different injuries have different causes. One type of shoe might be more risky for people prone to one type of injury and still be a benefit for people prone to a different type.

Can I blame the hamstring cramps I get late in races on the shoes? lol. Maybe I need to train in them more if they're putting more stress on my hamstrings.

Agreed - Listed mine in a post above.

The most interesting thing on these shoes (perhaps it is on everything here) is people who have apparently have strong opinions or have information without any first hand knowledge whatsoever. So, they can't be specific on injuries :-) unless they make that up too :-)! Of course, perhaps that is what forums tend to generate.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I’ve been prone to plantar fasciitis. I tried these shoes and I could feel the pain flaring up
Almost immediately

I'm shocked not to see the boy who cried wolf gloating about how right he is about vaporflys. That aside, everyone is going to have different experiences and we should all hope that we will see some sort of scientific analysis on the injury rates of people wearing these shoes. I take comfort in the notion that strava is recording thousands and thousands of runners switching to the shoes and as of yet, I haven't seen anywhere that PTs are completely strained or worried. Certainly some PTs are but some PTs think shoes make all the difference and in my opinion, those are the PTs you want to avoid. Unless you have a very unique issue, you can likely fix imbalances and form concerns with the right targeted strength training.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I was referring to the messaging I‘ve seen (and I’ll be honest, I don’t know where it’s from, Nike or elsewhere) around the Next% / 4% etc, of them being effective for a couple of marathons and then at the end of their life, so users who I know, only using them to race in and training in other shoes.

I suspect a lot of it will come down to what you’ve trained in previously and what your body is adapted to. I can’t run in anything with much of a sole, otherwise I get feet, calf and TA issues, but then I’ve run in low profile shoes for a long time.