Refer to Magnus Ditlev and jan Frodeno and Chrissie Wellington

Chelsea Sodaro, Sam Laidlow, Magnes Ditlev and Jan Frodeno are about as skinny as you can look without looking malnourished.

I believe the concept is, someone that is skinny is usually walking the line of providing their body proper nutrition and energy. Energy deficit’s are not as big of a deal in say, cycling, where weight bearing and the ability to refuel fairly easily, are not concerns. I’ve heard coaches say the skinny atheletes are their least favorite because they get injured the most. I think there is some truth in it. Under fueling can result in stress fractures, tendonitis, gut inconsistencies, and other issues. Having high volume training and long races amplify that. I think it’s also fairly well known the Norwegians prioritize adequate fueling for recovery and improving fitness, rather than trying to be as lean as possible.

However, if the concept is that bigger athletes have more fuel reserves for the longer duration effort, I think it would just be false.

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My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist

Kristian and Jan (throw in Alistair if you want) are the two males who compete for the GOAT crown and they could not have more different body types which I think should put to bed any idea that there is an ideal body type for triathlon racing of any distance.

I always go back to Macca and his well documented personal weight journey when somebody posts a question on this topic.
The Triathlete Weight Debate – Macca

Most people would probably say Patrick Lange is too thin, but he’s made it work.

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Let food be thy medicine...

I think it's more to do with the fact long distance triathlon requires a lot of power on the bike (as opposed to power to weight ratio) on most courses.

Yes that's surely a big part of it. Look at the general body types of the world very best long distance swimmers, cyclists, and runners. The general body types of the world best Triathletes is a pretty faithful amalgamation of the three.

At the end of marathons or ultra running races nobody says people faded because they're too skinny.

Well I'm pretty skinny and I'm going to race a full in a few months, so I'll let you know how it goes.

has he made it work though? sure he's not done badly but (acknowledging that i've not followed him closely) i'd consider him an example of the issue with "too thin" athletes - he's had some great results but struggled for consistency. thats what you get when you're on the edge of too thin - great performance when you manage to keep it together for a full race build but all too often running into issues with injury, illness or energy availability

I started to perform better at long events when I put on 5kg, especially the bike.
My best runner performances came when I had to move around in the shower to get wet.

I think Jonas Vingegaard would have no problem crushing any triathlete at a 180km time trial.

Interesting question, you're probably right but I'm not 100% sure. Jonas never does anything approaching 180 km for TT, has to train for mountains and therefore vo2 max in addition to long sub threshold work. Then you take a triathlete like Blu, Laidlow, etc. They wouldn't have the swim before or run after so they could up the power on the TT. Plus they train specifically for the TT. It be interesting...

Realistically a harder TdF stage is going to be around 250w for 4-6h. His position has to be close to 0.20 cda, he's winning TdF TT's. Those theorectical numbers are putting him at 43kph, sub 4:15 bike split. There's good reason to believe that with tri-legal changes to his bike the cda would come down a little, and a 250w stage is not his maximal 4h output.

It also stands to reason that a pure cyclist would be better at cycling than a triathlete. Ditto for pure runners and pure swimmers.

We had this discussion in another thread...do you folks really believe that a guy that pushes over 7 w/kg for 20 minutes after 4 hours of hard riding...puts around 3 minutes on the likes on Wout Van Aert in a short time trial (we can only speculate on his wattage) cannot develop his TT bike endurance over a few months to demolish a bunch of triathletes in a 4 hour time trial?

Hate to play this card, but it is the most objective one: a top triathlete cyclist biked 51 kph on the track...a top cyclist biked almost 57 kph on the track. It is the exact same aerobic engine that will be required to TT over a longer distance. And we all know they all have the bike endurance.

The only reason this fallacy remains alive is because top cyclists do not race long time trials hence we keep dreaming that Lionel would smash Remco in Kona.

What is being discussed here?

On the surface....
A) The problems of people with body fat < 5%, who are training and racing very close to their physiological limits?
They get sick and exhausted sometimes.
(Very few people in this category).

Really....
B) The problems of people with body fat > 10%, who are nowhere near their physiological limits?
They want some excuse. Or added reason to feel good about themselves.
"I am muscular, NOT skinny fat, like those other guys"
(Lot's and lots of people in this category).

I fear this is often the truth anytime "too skinny" appears. You're not allowed to tell someone they're too heavy, but too skinny is carte blanche. As a general rule it's likely that you can improve performance by losing weight. (Inb4 "I gained 5lbs and got faster" and "that's dangerous to people with eating disorders"). Yes, there are people who have gained weight and gotten faster, or lost weight and gotten slower, but the majority of AG triathletes would see lower times at lower weights.

IMO the big reason for this disconnect is that when you're in a caloric deficit you tend to feel markedly less good than when you're not, and it scales pretty well with the depth of that deficit. It's a classic pattern. Athlete weighs 180lbs, goes into a steep deficit for 2 weeks and gets down to 170lbs (5 of which is water weight that comes back as soon as they refeed) and feels like crap for 2 weeks. They eat again, weight pops up to 175lb and they feel amazing. The conclusion they draw is that their "ideal weight" is 175lbs and at 170lbs they're "too skinny".

It's easy to lose/gain weight and IMO serious athletes should consider it as part of their performance equation.

Thanks for this repost hugely appreciated.

Here is the process I think most athletes should follow:

1) Chose a goal.

2) Train for that goal.

3) Eat and sleep to nourish the training for the goal.

4) If:
a) Your weight is not a major hindrance for your goal,
b) You have nourished your training
c) You are hungry...
YES- go ahead and eat for enjoyment-

5) If you have a very specific and difficult goal...
YES- The finer points of the debate...
Jonas vs Blu, training vs diet...
That discussion is for you.
Go ahead.

Agreed for the most part. Number 3 leaves a lot of room for interpretation, and given the horrendous state of most modern food consumption "eating healthy" should probably be included. Oreos and Tastycakes can fit a definition of 3, but will leave you hungry and over eating for enjoyment.

I guess my stance is that athletes know their FTP, run tempo pace, swim CSS, weekly hours, TSS, and then have a laissez faire attitude for nutrition outside of workouts. "Eat when you're hungry" is fine for some, same as "train when you feel like it". It usually works good enough, but there's a lot of potential for improvement. Not training vs. diet, training and diet both seen as fundamentals for performance. Tbh I think it often comes down to training is usually fun and eating healthy usually is not.

Anne haug comes to mind.. although recently diagnosed with some metabolic disorder

The roots of Tri go back to barroom debates about who the better athletes were, swimmers, bikers or runners...and 40-50 years later its still a thing.

If you took a world-class marathoner to tri, I think most would need to bulk up to be strong swimmers & bikers. So there is an argument they are 'too thin' for tri even at elite fitness.

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

I'm of the opinion that JV would demolish any triathlete in a standalone TT...Not that that discussion was the direction I felt this thread would go haha.

I guess my takeaway from the discussion so far here is that I will not worry about my skinny runner's build. I am not someone who weighs themselves every day, fusses over specific numbers (or food amounts) too much. I certainly am a little heavier than my peak college running days (maybe 6ish pounds), but my training is going well, I'm doing more than I ever have training-wise, I get sick less than I did as a kid and young adult, and I pretty much eat what I want within reason.

Disclaimer: not a coach.

I don't think you have to worry about it. If your body is missing a bit of specific cycling strength, it will likely come with training. A functional strength program is a good idea to make sure you are firing all the muscles on the bike. Although the triathlon coaching community is a bit divided on the strength training topic. FWIW, despite being only about 130 lb, JV actually does strength training. Same goes for Remco and Ganna.