Cool story bro!

Now if the rest of the world could understand that you are not entitled to a paycheck but you have to earn it than the world would be a much better place.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I agree. I have been working for my company for 15 years and the new employees feel they are entitled to $75,000 per year because they just got out of school and that is what they deserve. No one is entitled but if you work your ass off, you might earn a good living.

Part of earning your living is negotiating though. If you just take what is offered, many will take advantage of you.

This gets especially tricky in job markets where there is 1 employer, or 1 employer who controls the vast majority of the market.

Crowie himself negotiated pretty hard with the Orbea situation.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

A true champion who started at the bottom and worked his way up. No easy paycheck and everything earned. Went through some very tough financial times and had a lot of stress on the family. He is a total class act! Great guy

You are referring to a monopsony. The majority of the labor markets that supply a monopsony are unionized. I can't think of one true monopsony that doesn't have a unionized labor supply. The labor market that is fascinating to study (I'm a nerdy economist) is the tech industry. This industry is close to a pure competition, thus employees have strong negotiating power. The unique characteristics of the labor supply (highly educated/intelligent) help isolate other factors that then can be studied (generalization: determinants of supply/demand)

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Actually, the majority of the REALLY rich folks (far above 1%) that I know personally did not work their tail off to get that rich. You can't work hard enough to make that kind of money. You need to be in the right place, right time, to make the right deal or the right strike.

Working hard def counts, and can itself get you 6 figures as a doctor, top salesperson, lawyer, etc., but the REAL rich folks don't work a ton for their ridiculous assets. Many top businesspeople even sit on multiple boards to steer various companies - no way you could do that if you were in the trenches of your own company doing the day to day micromanaging.

... unless you're born into wealth.

Micro managing: the preserve of the middle manager.

No, that is wrong. There is plenty of evidence for both wage fixing and wage theft in tech. A few superstar coders and recent graduates of the best universities are the only ones with strong negotiating power.

http://pando.com/...-wage-fixing-cartel/

http://westspacejournal.org.au/...013/the-agile-union/

Also, how can competition between Indian software engineers who get their university education for free, and their US counterparts who come out of university with massive student debt loads, be 'pure' ? To say nothing of the wage disparity..

93 percent of private sector employees are non-union. The few public sector unions that remain are under constant attack. I don't believe the unions have any teeth left.
http://www.motherjones.com/...ng-income-inequality

I would hire this dude in a second if I had a tri-related business and could afford him.

WTC could not have been happier with Crowie here if they had written this for him. You cannot fault WTC for being a monopoly that acts like a monopolist: they have no incentive to push pro incomes up as long as their goose keeps laying golden eggs. Crowie's best paydays are behind him, but if you're a young pro on the way up, you say your prayers every night that someone (Challenge, whomever) can build a legitimate alternative to the WTC model. Until then the prize pools aren't going anywhere.

In North American pro sport, player salaries stayed stagnant for generations until alternative leagues appeared (AFL/NFL, ABA/NBA, WHA/NHL) or in the case of major league baseball they had players and unions (Curt Flood, Marvin Miller) who were willing to take a professional bullet for the cause.

Old Boston Bruin fans may remember Wayne Cashman, who liked to tell how his salary went from $12,000 to $70,000 per season (early 1970s) after the Bruins lost star players to the WHA. He said how the Bruins always told him he was lucky to have it so good at $12k until they were forced to pay a market wage.

The problem for pro triathletes is that they will never get a market wage until they build a real market. Unfortunately, no one is going to do that for them.

LOL....no one is forcing US high school grads to go to overpriced US universities, when universities the world over deliver just as high quality education, setting you up to do well the labour force. How many US grads are applying to go study Computer Engineering at IIT Bombay. If you get in there, you are an intellectual rock star, but the environment won't be as nice at going to say MIT.

I would say that tech is the closest to pure global competition. Everyone from Shanghai, to Herzliya, to Austin, to Chengdu, to Suwon, to Hsinchu to Silicon Valley is trying to steal each other's lunch and out innovate and out compete the other guy, with fairly low labour market barriers in terms of getting quality talent. Access to capital is relatively "fair" too. Amazing that Israel has the second highest concentration of tech VC capital outside of the US. They just out innovate with their brains and wheeling and dealing!!!

If nothing else the competition, labour pool and markets are all global. If the government here won't let me hire some smart guys from Harbin and bring them over from China,, I'll just work with the government in Manchuria and set up an engineering shop next door to the university at Harbin and take the work there. They can FTP the semiconductor chip design before I have it fabricated in Taiwan, packaged in Malaysia and then shipped to a customer in Finland :-). We could say the bike industry is not that different too. I realize it is not quite simple as that, but that's what lots of us are doing now anyway. Global market, global talent pool, global competition....hmmmm, sounds similar to the market pro triathletes have to play in too.

WTC could not have been happier with Crowie here if they had written this for him. You cannot fault WTC for being a monopoly that acts like a monopolist//

I was thinking the same exact thing, very disappointed in Crowie and his response. We know you had it tough coming up through the ranks with all the good guys ahead of you, i had the same thing. But instead of calling out those aspiring pros and basically calling them whiney, why not wish them something better than you had? He had it better than i did because of the early generation of pros and the shows they put one, should i begrudge him because he had it easier than i did?


And the whole point thing he danced around, just come out and say it is bullshit. And stop defending WTC like they are the caretakers of our sport, they are just some company that wants to suck as much money out of it as they can before they say haste la vista baby! He ascribes to them some plan other than the completely obvious one, and that is to get as many pros to do as many races, for as little money as possible. They are not fine tuning anything, except a system that gets them the most bang for their buck. they do not care if you have to race 3 or 4 iron mans a year and be toast for hawaii, that is not part of their equation in determining how you get there. It should be, and it could be if the pros had a united front, but rants like this do nothing to even lean that direction. If anything he should be bending over backwards to help the next crop of pros, he is basically done with his career. This whole i had to suffer for 10 years so everyone should is just being selfish. All the big names of my day(excluding one) were on board with helping the so called 2nd tier pros and the guys that would take the mantle from them. If he is going to shill for WTC, then he should just say nothing, collect his huge start fees, and go quietly into the night. If you want to be an ambassador for the pros, then act like one..

they probably DID write it for him. Good call.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Yup! This video is an old man who is past his prime and bragging about how he had to walk 10 miles to and from school in the snow when he was growing up (uphill both ways!).

Without over-hijacking this thread, your flaw is the scope of the market. I know plenty of recent graduates that have 5-10 job offers with tech companies (both domestic and abroad). As for coming out of school with debt, well that's their own choice. I'm not sure how it plays into the role of labor competition. I'm going to refrain my comment on student loan debt since I'm sick and tired of hearing recent graduates cry about their student loan debt and how the interest rate is so high.........see, I'm already starting to go off on that. :)

The current tech industry reminds me of the finance industry when I graduated in the mid-90's. Finance majors were in such high demand, I went to job interviews in workout clothes or just jeans and a t-shirt. My friends that had student loan debt had their new employer pay it off. I had no debt so I negotiated a signing bonus, new computer and 5 new suits. Coming from college, I had no suits so I figured they should pay for them and they did. At $500-$700 a pop for a mid-level suit, that's a big chunk of change to plunk down without receiving your first paycheck. Also, a computer in the mid-1990's was a big deal. Not status quo like today. I was more proud that I negotiated a computer than $5,000 in suits. lol.

From 2000 until 2005ish, experienced finance people were in high demand again. I changed employers only because while I was sitting at lunch in a restaurant reviewing files, a gentleman sat down and asked what it would take to go work for him. I've also poached people at community events. I actually paid one of my employees more than myself just to hire him. That's how ass backward things got. lol. I left in early 2007 to pursue Ph.D in economics since it was clear the industry was going to implode.

As for unions, you are right, they have very little teeth left. The labor markets are slowly being liberated from the clutches of the union. It's a beautiful thing.

I'll stop the hijack now. Back to Crowie. :)

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

"All the big names of my day (excluding one) were on board with helping the so called 2nd tier pros and the guys that would take the mantle from them."

I got that one. Selfishness is the curse that keeps on giving...

-bobo

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"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."

Nonsense. There are huge barriers to pure competition, including lack of mobility of labor across borders and even within countries, as well as significant price fixing in the labor market. The recent lawsuits about collusion among high tech company's on the US West Coast, which amounted to wage theft, is an example.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

we are all just pawns in the system. No different than the peasants during the Roman time. But boy is our quality of life so much better.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You work here too? We should catch up at the coffee machine some time. :-)

To me, the crowd that expect stuff (any stuff) are the same people that seem to focus on their 'rights' and can barely even pronounce the word 'responsibilities'. They also seem to be the same people that ask what they can get, not what they can give.

I'm glad that I'm old and will die soon, so I won't have to live in a world that is becoming more and more self focussed.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I'm glad people like you are old and will die soon too.

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Sounds like you've been talking to my wife!

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"