Just curious: do you have any actual reason to believe either of these observations (acceleration and stiffness)?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Nice, that looks a lot better than I thought it would turn out. I know it's got to be really hard to sand that
spray foam down smooth enough to make it look good but you did a really fine job.

Because of the spokes being encased in foam you shouldn't have any problems with breaking a spoke.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

Stiffness has very little to do with acceleration. A disc is heavier than a regular wheel, but more aerodynamic. Since weight's (mass' actually) impact on acceleration is constant with speed, and aerodynamics are exponential with speed; a disc will accelerate worse than a standard wheel at slow speeds, but better at high speeds.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Carbon Wrap $60

Yikes! Is that for real?

I love these types of projects but I still love my ENVE carbon clincher rear wheel with Catalyst cover for a total weight of Sub 900g's. With tire and tube it comes in at around 1100g.

Got a video - shot it as the sun went down, in like 10 mins. But I think it captures the essence of the project(s).

Excitement, just got the Guru back from the shop today, picked up some awesome leather for the "bespoke" saddle, worked quickly to get it all adjusted & ridable. Geez it rides all very nice. The aero position is great, but the drops are a little out there. Much better than my E118 for sure.

Handle bar tape, cable clean up still to go of course, as well as dialing it in - have to drop the stem, few more adjustments etc.

> https://youtu.be/bM6-oC2BDMs


edit - new tunes, still heavy tunes, but no f-word.:O

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How did you get the carbon covering to stay . is it glued or heated on. And finally your carbon isn't taped on around the rims. How did it go on so smoothly. I am starting tomorrow morning on this or as soon as I hear back from u

I used carbon-look wrap which is sticky-back vinyl. If the rim is clean the wrap with stay there no problem. Also make sure the foam filled area is dust free (blow it off). I had some bubbles in the spoke area but since they went away with a few heat cycles.

Also epoxy is good for sealing up seams and any openings like the valve access. The epoxy has held will. I am using the disc full time on the Guru, no problems. Probably race it next weekend too. Here's the disc with HED Decals, bike complete...

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
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So awesome man. So bottom line and correct if I am wrong. Place a piece of abs plastic I made for an old wheel behind the wheel. Spray foam and let expand. It needs to be flush with the spokes or really a little over them. If not do I use that spread or spackle to get it flush with spokes? If so then sand until it is smooth. No need in getting the foam or insulation right? Then place one piece of vinyl or two pieces. Because I have one that is 24 x 60 that could cover the whole wheel. Then cut around the axle to allow for the cassette and skewers. And let me guess the vinyl goes a little above the foam but not by much to seal around the rim. U r the man. Please inform. And let me know if u would have changed anything

Couple quick questions. Did you/can you use just the regular expandable spray foam from like Home Depot (DAP Brand) or does it need to be a certain kind? Secondly, on the non drive side did you have a problem with the carbon wrap bending since that side has more angles with the spokes?

Ok, i have a serious question from a relative newbie. you spent $85 to build this, but those AeroJacket covers are around $100 and it seems to me they would give the same aero advantage, but also be way lighter.
Is there information i don't understand? Because right now it seems to me that, although a cool project, this probably isn't the best all around way to get a disc going in the back.
I just want to reiterate that i honestly don't know and am asking a legitimate question.

Also, from random cool project stand point, A+.

Hey man. If you look back the reason is because u get the sound with it. Sure u can get wheel builder for 100 or you can do what I did and build one out of abs plastic for 30. But this transcends all that by producing one more like the fioam ones of hed and u get the whomp sound. Lo . I'm trying it today and will let everyone know how it goes. With picture . This could be a nightmare

This has to be intimidating as can be. I just put my old abs disc on one side and sprayed the foam all in the wheel. Now I sit nervous and wonder if the old abs is going to come off and wonder how I am going to fix this ugly foam that is drying in all kinds of different patterns. It is going to take two bottles of this stuff. 16 ounces is not enough.

so disc covers dont give off that cool sound? also, i have no idea why that sound is so cool, but im always jealous of those guys.

How muuch extra weight does this add though? does the extra weight really make a difference?

K. Just put on second dose of that pu foam. Took off the abs backing. No need in trying to keep it flush with the spokes. Even with the backing it still expands and does not dry as fast. So just spray with the backing and then remove after an hour. I found something promising to put over the foam to make a flat surface prior to placing the vinyl over it. Drum roll. Floor dampening foam. U can get it at Lowes or home depot. I will put pics up later. Got to go get this foam off my hands. It is messy. Next one will be easier because I know what I am doing. The hard work getting this smooth will be next.

Hi guys -

Foam is way lighter than any ABS/HDPE plastic. A simple way to make sure the foam doesn't stick is just to use some poly (PE) sheet and you can even use cardboard to support the foam.

We are building a "wing covering" much like the model airplane guys do. There is a thread on here where a guy used wing covering material - only. No foam core. I don't know how durable that would be tho. Because this is a bike, there needs to be some sort of baseline durability. The foam method does this, but with just a vinyl covering you can make a finger dent in it pretty easy. ie Zipp et al could not build like this because customers would freak out. ("I have a dent in my $2500 wheel and xxxx won't warranty it")

Vinyl covering - On the raised side (non-gear side) I had to cut the vinyl once along the line of the spokes. Do this from the valve access hole to the center of the wheel. (I didn't and it looks a bit goofy). The vinyl wrap doesn't like to stick to itself - so I cut the seam flush and used epoxy - several applications to seal the butted seam. I also used the 5 min epoxy to seal the valve access hole exposed foam edges. I mixed in carbon powder for that awesome grey look.

Also - You might want to hit the whole foam surface with a paint/primer - even water based, prep the surface so that the vinyl can stick a bit better. The vinyl did not stick that well to the foam but after a couple of weeks of smoothing it out (hot sun etc.) I have no more lifting or bubbling.

Bottom line - I took a cheap wheel that I was just going to pitch in metal recycle and built an awesome sounding & looking disc that I ride all day long. So yeah it's cool.

To do again??? I would start with a better quality, lighter, wider alu wheel. I might try using balsa wood & urethane glue as the filler vs the foam. But if that lost the sound, I'd be bummed out. And finally for the covering I think I would go true carbon fiber, thin layer of epoxy, then a clear coat, two part. Takes more time but would be more robust and easier to get a nicer, smooth finished product. I would like to build another disc. I think this is a great approach, HED/Zipp hybrid of sorts - cool sound, clincher style, and if you can score a great used/new wheel ($200) the total cost would be no more than $300, a few beers and the wife and kids wondering where u are hiding.

Note
1. ABS is a bit nasty (fumes, melts when cut, brittle etc.) I like HDPE from Quadrant, excellent stuff, but it is the PE (polyethelene) family. Which means it's slippery and breaks down with a lot of flexing.

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Put the wheel away, stop looking at it and leave it for 24 hours!! Let the foam setup and start the next day.


I used two cans and two applications. You can even do a third after cutting stage to fill holes. You could even use urethane glue - it flows and expands. For ease of use to fill holes I used DAP acrylic foam but that stuff wasn't so good imo. I used a big watermelon knife to trim the foam before sanding. It sands easily and quickly - I might have use 80 grit paper.

Forgot to add a note about spackle - you MUST use the lightweight high quality spackle (it's latex based). FYI The spackle smoothing layers added more weight than all of the PU foam.

Good luck...

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What kind of spray foam did you use? Could I use the stuff from Home Depot (DAP)? and to get it smooth for the carbon fiber does that airplane filler work the best? Does it stand up to the elements? And lastly, does the carbon fiber just stick to the rim itself around the edge or did you have to do anything special?

thanks

So you think the spackle adds less weight and is better then the EPS foam layer?
3mm EPS foam actually weights in on 130g/m2, and the Depron Aero is around 100g/m2.
Given the advantages of a solid smooth layer, I would probably go with that.

One thing is for sure, there are no sentences that can be used to prepare u for what I am looking at right now. I have started the cutting and have one side finished. I just hope this vinyl will stick to this 2mm floor foam. It looks a whole lot better now. Now I can relate to how the author mentioned a crap project. It looked horrible but is shaping up each hour

I followed your example and built one. I used a cardboard box as a base. I cut a hole for the cassette body, laid the wheel flat and started spraying the foam. After the foam set up I soaked the cardboard with the garden hose and it peeled right off. After the lightweight spackle I applied several coats of indoor-outdoor latex primer. I found some carbon foil really cheap on Amazon. 24" wide was enough to cover my wheel.

I have raced mine once but I can't tell if it sounds better than my ABS version. It was really windy that day and my helmet covers my ears.

I used urethane foam, not DAP (which could be water-based) just the $5 per can (home hardware) was good. The spackle is a model airplane trick and I used that to feather the gap and low point from the foam into the rim itself. (Zipp sub9 style). After sanding it was not a smooth consistent surface.

I don't quite remember the foam was like 75 grams.

I made sure the rim was super clean and with alcohol, and stuck the vinyl with overlap. I used a knife to trace around the brake track and the final cut.

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Just finished all the sawing off of the foam. I used a razor blade at first. Way too much work. Then I used long blade knife that was smooth edge. That took too much. Then I went with the saw edge and started takin care of business. It would have taken thirty minutes instead of the hour and a half. Next I will put the foam on the outside (floor muffler) and adhere it to the wheel. Then the carbon fiber wrap will be applied over the top.

Hey rambler. U got any pics of it. And does my Spackle need to cover the spokes y'all?

No pics yet.

The spackle is mostly cosmetic, to get a smoother surface. I don't know that it is critical that the spokes are completely covered. I tried to make the material flush with the spokes. I don't see an issue with the outline of the spokes being visible through the vinyl wrap. The Zipp disks look a bit like this even though they don't have spokes. Since the spokes are centered at the rim, the part closest to the rim are well below the surface for a few inches.