To the OP - I don't think you should go pro or make it a goal to go pro. It was never a goal for me, it just happened. If it happens to you, great. But I'd wait until the challenge of racing amateur is no longer a proper challenge before making the jump. It's not the right target for where your fitness is at right now. That's not say you can't get there in a few years - I definitely think you can, but enjoy age group / amateur racing for the time being and focus on steady improvements, especially on the swim & bike. You'd be interfering with the women's pro race with your current numbers and wouldn't have fun IMO. There isn't much glamour after your first pro race, the single pro porto potty line is just as long as the amateur ones and the mandatory pro race meetings are just a pain in the ass. Youtube makes racing mid and back pack pro glamorous and fun - it isn't. You're getting your ass kicked. It sucks. It's FUN to be competing for AG podiums, doing well at world championships, and

I just think racing in the back of the pro field is not that fun. Find someone who says getting 30 out of 40 is a good time... and then ask an amateur who finished 5th place at a race without a pro field... it's a blast. With your swim, it'll be a long solo day and there is so much more pride and joy in getting a top 5 overall amateur finish vs. a 33rd place pro finish. I just don't get why many of these guys go pro so early, I had such a blast in the 2 years I raced at the front of the amateur field - I wouldn't trade those years for anything, and I credit my success now as a pro with some of those experiences learning how to compete at the front. I have many friends who have been quickly deflated and their perspective on the sport changes quickly as a pro.

In response to my work life... lol
Haha... "Talkie Talkie" vs. "Workie Workie" is a good one. I should do a thread on my work vs. training balance as a pro. I think I'm the top world ranked pro with a corporate job now which has always been a goal of mine. But yeah obviously being fully remote and working at a publicly traded tech company make my training lifestyle possible (not consulting or a startup, which I did from 2016-2020). It is true that I'm mostly in team meetings (I'm a Sr. Director, with a VP above me, and a team of 16 below me). Yesterday I had 12 30-minute back to back meetings with no break, but I also basically worked from 10-4pm after a long swim, and then was on the trainer from 4-6pm. I'm solidly middle management but don't get the C-suite text messages on the weekends - my boss does. I have earned a ton of flexibility in my day to day working life after years of grinding long hours in my early and mid 20s. I'm 30 now and someone on Slowtwitch actually gave me a great piece of advice a couple years ago basically saying "just don't become a VP and you can go pro..." I'm at the point now where I would turn down a promotion if it meant more work. Not quite ready to consider quitting my job as surviving on $20-30k/year isn't gonna cut it lol. Wife and I plan to move back to the SF Bay Area where I was born and raised so saving up for that $2.5M 1500 sq ft dream home lol...

I'm able to train 20-23 hours a week with my job, which absolutely wouldn't be possible without 1) being fully remote 2) having been there for 4 years already. If I started a new job my training would be in trouble. Fitting in 20 hours is pretty easy with any job with big weekends, but what I've found that is super hard is the recovery. I don't do any sessions after dinner (ever), I don't wake up before 6am. I used to do those things and would crumble if I was doing the volume now. I do travel across the country for work once every 6 weeks for a week which is the thing I dislike the most about working full time and trying to compete as a pro, mostly because my day starts at 8am and I'm not back in the hotel until 9pm on those days. I stopped drinking on all work trips (and also in my daily life) to optimize sleep and recovery.

I would make a detailed Youtube video on this, but I don't want coworkers seeing it tbh. I do a LOT to hide the amount that I train (my strava is public, but I'm definitely not out there talking about how I'm rolling into Zoom meetings with camera-off still in a speedo, or how a lot of my "appointments" are actually massages.

JR

Justin -- respect you a ton so I think the sentiments you're expressing are interesting for other pros to see who have earned the right to be on pro start lists too. Idk that there is more pride & joy in finishing top-5 AG versus 30/40 Pro. That's how you viewed it. You could argue that someone who debuted with a 6th place finish in a pro 70.3 waited too long to become pro & didn't need additional AG wins/podiums. You could argue that another AGer could've been on the AG podium because there was a legitimate pro they had to compete against that wouldn't move up in competition even though they would be plenty competitive. I'm not arguing that. You had every right to make the choices you made. Talent is also a limiting factor in this conversation. Some people might have to grind for a lifetime for that 30/40 & won't be able to progress much past that. Maybe they're happy of where they got to & are happy to challenge themselves in a pro field, trying to turn that 30/40 to 20/40. Some people turn pro later in life & don't need to win races to be happy if they know there's a higher level of competition. I think what drives some of this is the lack of prize money available to top pros. Mid-pack and back of pack pros don't make a dime. Maybe it's worth it to you now because you know you can finish in the money at most domestic events. But I don't think that's how other people have to see it. You're not less than as a pro because prize money doesn't go as deep as it should and there aren't other development options for pros. OP is a bit off the pro mark anyways. They're not messing with pro women. They'll be in a different place when/if they're ready to make the jump. You can still set a tough goal for yourself & enjoy the work it takes to get there imo.

Totally agree with the alternate view you laid out here. My views are certainly just my own, I don't think there is a right vs. wrong answer and everyone is entitled to race the way they want. But the OP's phrasing suggested their "goal" is to turn pro and I just don't think that's the right way to look at it.

A few firmly held beliefs:

• I believe that on average (not always), a pro finishing 30/40th in a 50 person field is having less fun and fulfillment in triathlon than a Top-5 AG, World Championship podium competing amateur athlete of the same caliber. Frankly those athletes are more of the "10-20th" Pro caliber in a 50 person field. Largely because of the pressure they put on themselves that comes with identifying as a "pro." Also injuries, training pressure, etc. I got a stress fracture right after "turning pro." I could be wrong, but I spend a lot of time with people in both of these groups and that's my POV. Most people who want to go pro incorrectly assume it comes with money, some status symbol, or a new identify. It doesn't.
• The threshold to become a pro in the USA is far too easy, particularly with the USAT points qualifying pathway vs. Top 3 overall amateur pathway. It is what it is, but I don't think I'm alone in believing it should be much harder to earn the right to race in the pro field of an Ironman event. But, there are also lots of people who think it should be easier to line up in a T100 event ;) So, again my views are just my own...
• To my knowledge, there is little to no enforcement of the "pro relegation" (once you get your license, you can effectively renew it for as long as you'd like) despite what the rules suggest about re-qualifying.
• There are some pros finishing in the back of the pack that love the sport and just want to challenge themselves at the highest level. That's fine. But I don't like to encourage people to make that "the goal." Because I think if you do, you risk getting there and being unfulfilled and at worst, deflated and discouraged.

I could see that some might suggest I waited a little too long to turn pro, I mostly blame Kona getting pushed from 2020 to 2022... haha. I wasn't going to skip that, so I turned pro right afterwards (same as Matt Marquardt, Jan Stepinski, and several other super competitive Euro pros).

I agree with you and have posted similar thoughts in another thread and mentioned in this one that I felt the US qualifying standards are too easy. I think a more reasonable and satisfying path would be to begin winning AG at big races and being competitive at the various AG World Championship events. Once an athlete makes those standards becoming a true professional makes much more sense.

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Yeah everything in here is super reasonable. The USAT standards were talked about in depth earlier in this thread. Would suggest going through those comments. I would say that a 106.22 score rating is plenty challenging. It has gone up every year since at least 2020 to account for new pros/retiring pros. Many other countries do not have a pro standard like this so it's interesting that we zero in on US pros when it's easier to get a pro license in a lot of other countries. I think the formula is actually flawed a bit against faster athletes who choose to do competitive races. IM races will score high, especially when there's bad weather but ratings won't be as high when you race locally where you get a more devoted mid-pack. You really have to have a stellar race if you can't afford to travel. I'm usually 1-2 points higher from a local race to a regional IM race off of the same fitness. I'm the same athlete. I know I'm pushing myself the same. I think the formula should get looked at but the standard is still getting tougher each year. If you finish top-3 at a pro event with the right prize money you are going well over that rating. The auto qualifiers tied to AG Nats & IM World Champs would put you well over that. Your license is supposed to renew for 3 years every time you meet the criteria -- it sounds like that's not being enforced from what you're saying? That's an interesting piece to this because that's how athletes should be put back into AG racing.

I fall right into the group of athletes we're talking about. I just hit the pro standard on points. I'm going to be 32 soon & have had a lot of serious medical issues in the past. I have one more AG race on the calendar & then think I'm going to try to make the jump. I love triathlon. I know it's not going to be easy but I want to see if I can go from 30/40 to 20 to 10, while I have a window to compete. If I wait a year or two maybe I could debut higher up but I'm ok working my way up. I'm happy trying to push myself each day. My tentative plan is to also set reasonable goals/expectations & choose races that I think are better for me. I'm not going to go to Oceanside to get smoked. I would go to non-Pro Series races like Maine & Augusta with aided swims since I'm newer to swimming. I think it's fine for people to race wherever. IM did cut some races mid-pack pros would flock to like Oregon to build up the Pro Series. I'm on the east coast so Maine + Augusta are easy enough for me to get to. Some mid-pack pros might just have bigger IM races for close travel races.

I would also say that Covid has made top-end AG racing quite lonely. I think your experience as a top-AGer is a little different to that experience now. The time trial starts are brutal. It's hard to seed correctly because corrals are a free for all based on swim time. Every race I'm in is basically a solo time trial. Mostly no legal drafting for me on the bike, even though you know some people are definitely drafting (& maybe not doing so illegally). You never know where you are in a race. I've been in a sprint finish with someone who I'm minutes up on. I've made a late race pass only to lose by a few seconds. I think a pro field could elevate my own racing. Would be nice for IM to have some sort of sub-elite seeded start corral/mass start, similar to what you get in big running road races. That might make AG racing a little more appealing.

Maybe I got the wrong person from USAT but when I tried to reapply for my elite license they made me show proof that I had a time/placing that would have allowed me to re-qualify.

I agree with you on that last point. My goal was never to become a pro but when I qualified I knew it was the right, and maybe only time, to take the jump and race in the pro field knowing my life was going to change with kids. I knew that it was going to be a short stint because I knew I could not make a living and I knew I would not want to keep putting in the hours required to "compete" at that level. But one thing that made placing at the back end worth it was not having to wait for 2-3 hours after my race to get my bike out of transition! That made it 100% worth it! Ha.

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How is/was your experience racing pro? Knowing it was going to be short due to life changes.

I'm in a similar boat. I'm advancing the age group ranks but know if I qualify for a pro card I would be having kids within a couple years of that time.

Have to agree with some of your points regarding racing in the back of the field. I raced as a pro in 2022, and while I could bike around 2:10 (or 4.2watts/kg) and run 1:13s for the half, my swim was always at the back end (roughly 28mins) so I was miles behind the actual race.

Ultimately by the end of 2022 it completely crushed my confidence and I haven't raced in a pro race since then. I'm not trying to discourage the OP, but I just wanted to give my perspective that it ain't all sunshine and rainbows.

Congratulations on a lot of progress in a short period of time.

I think your goals of climbing to the top of the age groups ranks is a legitimate goal and qualifying for a pro card is also reasonable.

Depending on your expectations of racing as pro, you are minimum 3-4 years away from making your swim competent enough (guessing without seeing your actual swim now just based off your wetsuit time) to be involved in the race. Otherwise, you'll come into transition and all the male pro bikes will be gone as well as a good chunk of the female pro bikes.

I hope this helps and if you have any questions, please let me know.

Tim

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I wouldn't go back and do it differently if I had to. My first year pro I had a daughter late December so winter training wasn't too much different because I do not do many super long rides during the Chicago winters. And the spring I was able to train a fair amount because my MIL was helping with our daughter so I could still swim then go right to work. I think I trained about the same I did as when I was in AG field but the racing was just so different. Ended up only doing 2 pro races that season because there were not many close pro races and one we were going to racecation to was cancelled when we had to get 2 trees cut down which cut into our fun budget! My first pro race was my best and still was at the back of the field but was super fun. It was 70.3 Chatty so a good race. Was able to swim with others but once I got on the bike I was mainly alone (cycling is not my strong point). But then on the run I was able to run a pretty solid run and make up some ground.

Year 2 is when it started to get a bit much. My priorities shifted with my daughter and I did not want to train as much. My swimming was waking up at 4:30 to get my swim done and back home before she woke up. So was very exhausting. Still enjoyed it but got my butt kicked but I expected that with the training I put in.

Year 3 I think would have been better but that was the start of COVID so there was no racing. Same as year 4 then I transitioned to run only because the training was just too much and I was not enjoying as much.

What I would say is if you have the chance do it because you never know if you will be able to again and the AG field will always be there. If you have any questions feel free to let me know. Would be happy to help if you have any more specific questions.

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If finances are his weakest point, I think it is better to be the head of a mouse than the tail of a lion.
In South America, Fellipe Santos, who was one of the highest-ranked pro athletes on the continent, didn't renew his license this year. He got 2nd place overall at IM Florianopolis, including among the pro athletes. His only reason was financial, and believe me, hes got way more attention today, he's competing more, and overall, doingo more money.
As a pro athlete, you need to achieve results to attract the attention of brands that will invest in you. Until that happens, your pocket is your main sponsor. Going pro at your age and with your training baggage seems too risky. Staying as a strong Age Grouper might be your best choice.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but life is about risks. However, if you read "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell, the most successful people in life aren't taking risks at all; they have everything calculated.

Why go one year pro then back to age group? I believe the Ironman rules state that you just cannot compete as a pro and age grouper in the same calendar year. Get the pro experience, then go to Kona as an age grouper the next year. Is there anything preventing someone from hopping back and forth year to year?

I don't know if you are brazilian (I am), but, in my opinion, I think there is a difference between Brazilian x American/European triathlon scene. Not many pro races paying prize money here. Focusing only on IM brand races, only the full distance w/pro field and prize money, all the other 5 70.3 races in the calendar are age group only.

The top age groupers here get a lot of exposure on social media (Instagram for the most part), I dare to say they get even more sponsorship than the pros, and are able to boost all their other businesses associated with the sport (some are coaches).

The other side of this, is that the pro scene in Brazil is slowly dying, our best pros are aging, and the young talent can't keep with the cost of the sport, which for a Brazilian is greater than an European or American (currency worth 5x ours), being worse if you have to travel abroad to race pro because there are no pro races in your home country. IM Brazil had only 7 mpro (3 finished) and 3 fpro, so not much.

The age group race is fierce nowdays though. Fellipe was a real talent as a pro, and there are many others going age group for those reasons. Don't know if the same is happening in US/Europe.

There is a lot of good stuff in this and obviously also what JR says
At the same time it would be good if pros also would have a look how Imogen simonds became a pro, or how Sutton usually does it with his athletes. they don't race ironman races until they really make it there , they go to races where they can make money.
There is countries where you can make it work as a pro winning local races while you develop , not everybody can work and train .
One of the issues is that neo pros want to be in boulder or girona when there is way better places for them .