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T100 Tour Is Stupid
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Has anyone else had this thought in your head from the moment it was announced, only to have it get louder as time has gone on? I'm not one to stir the pot for the sake of it, but usually people are more hesitant to share thoughts which oppose the norm and I genuinely wonder where others stand on this. Here's what my thoughts revolve around:

1. Weakened pro fields - this is the LIV/PGA Tour dynamic that golf experienced. Literally the IM world championship this year will be a seriously weakened field, as LCB the defending champ has said she will not go. And let's be real - if T100 wasn't an option, she would absolutely go race in Nice this year. She wouldn't not go defend her title and sit at home because of that technical bike course. lots of the controversy about LIV was that the money behind it had ethical questions/concerns. T100 is NOT that in terms of the money so the comparisons between T100 and LIV are not all 100% valid. But, the fact that pros are choosing between T100 and Ironman events is not good for strength of pro fields, and i think that's a detriment to the sport's overall community. just as that dynamic was with golf. we don't get to see the best battle the best when they should be doing so. And for every argument that says T100 and the new IM pro series gives new opportunities for rising pros, there is an argument that the T100 is only truly benefitting the elite top-level pros. And it perhaps subjects pros to injury risks by just making it all too tempting to overextend yourself and race too much, or race when you shouldn't because of a niggle or sickness or whatever the case may be. Lets not forget, in the end, LIV and PGA Tour made a deal where they merged. Golf essentially agreed this is not good for the sport, so let's un-do it. and they did.

2. Weird identity - so PTO is now an age group thing? Are they competing with IM, or trying to become it? PTO stands for professional triathletes organization, and now they're putting on age group events? it sounds like PTO/T100 has no idea what it wants to be long term. I think PTO stuff was better when it was the 3 pro only races per year, done really well with all the best athletes there. Now, it's 7 (or 8? who knows at this point what will happen), with diluted fields because they made pros pick and choose between them and Ironman. and they're piggy backing one of their races onto one of, if not THE, best most famous non-WTC races in the world (alcatraz). We all hammer WTC for sticking their noses into good independent races, and while they haven't outright bought the race, PTO/T100 is sticking their nose into arguably the most famous non IM race in the world (perhaps outside of Challenge Roth, but this could be up for debate). we've also already had two instances with both the current IM world champions (LCB and laidlow) where they said things that were interpreted to be anti-Ironman. They both clarified/walked back their comments but it speaks to this weird divergence between PTO and Ironman, that in my opinion does not need to exist, and only exists because T100 has put athletes in that unpleasant position.

3. lack of organization - the world final still has no location. las vegas and dubai don't even have open registration right now. san francisco, they "cheated" and just piggy backed on escape from alcatraz to run their "age group" race. at some point we have to be talking more vocally about how much of a you-know-what show this whole tour is. Paula findlay had some interesting takes on the last TTL pod episode, but in summary said ironman events are more fun and enjoyable than a T100 race from the pro perspective too.

Don't get me wrong. I want pros to have viable financial opportunities. I believe pros are hugely important for our sport and our community and I want them to succeed as athletes and people. But I guess my point comes down to this: Are we saying, that if we consider the total T100 dollar amount (contracts, race purses, year-end winnings, all totaled) available as a pie available to distribute to pros somehow...that this "tour" is the best thing that can be done?? I say the answer to that question is a resounding no.

I may sound like one of those people who is just resistant to change. Maybe that's true. But maybe not. I love IMWC in Nice. I loved last couple years with the 3 PTO opens which truly were spectacles and didn't cause pros to choose between PTO or IM for the whole season or create the issues described above. I LOVE what PTO has done for the sport last couple years. I'm not saying throw PTO in the garbage can. I'm not saying that we shouldn't improve and increase opportunities for pros of all levels, and find a way to grow our sport and our collective enjoyment of it. But the T100 Tour is stupid. Anyone else? I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Again I just want to get a sense of whether I'm nuts, and the only one who thinks this.
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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Basically what my takeaways were out of my front page article after the Masters this year.

Welcome to the club. I wish they'd have just stuck with last year's model of working with existing races and making the pro event a massive piece of them versus trying to stand something up completely independently.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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I don’t think it is stupid but it does have a few challenges

Your point on the weaken pro field is one of them but not so much weakened but many I feel have showed up not anywhere near peak form so we are not getting the intense battles that T100 had promised. Having 8 races I feel might be too many. 4 might be better with a 100K top prize, no one will show up less than 100%. Doesn’t help that majority have also stated that they are using the series to tune up for WC?

Think your other point on what PTO stands for has been widely discussed

PF point on 70.3 has better vibe might be true as you get 1000s of age groupers and supporters along the course, Oceanside is a perfect example vs Miami? However Singapore , SF and London promises to have significant crowd presence?
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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The main difference between T100 and LIV (aside from the human rights considerations from LIV) from a sporting perspective, is that athletes are not locked into a specific format.

The PGA had (still has?) clauses of exclusivity, as do many sponsor agreements, so players had to leave the PGA tour in order to be able to take part in LIV, aside from a few pros who earned lifetime invites to the majors. Here, athletes can choose which races they take part in - T100 only has a minimum number of starts for contract purposes. There are athletes (Long, Matthews if she's well, most of the Paris hopefuls) who are attempting score points in more than one series.

I don't think its necessarily a bad thing if the racing has split fields - if LCB wants to focus on only one series, that's her prerogative. More money and eyeballs into the sport can only be a good thing. I see it no different than Sanders (who probably could invites to T100 should he wish) choosing to only focus on Kona / IM series. Athletes now have options, and they're choosing to exercise those options as they see fit. We can't get mad at them when they choose differently than we'd like.

Now, I do have some qualms about their production values, but that's another matter.
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think the T100 is stupid. There are tweaks I would make, but it is mostly great.

The most important part to me is getting a majority of the best triathletes racing each other as much as possible. It has been a little shaky so far, especially on the women's side, but the rest of the season seems likely to deliver this.
Last edited by: jwmott: Apr 26, 24 8:34
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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1. I completely disagree on the weakened fields. Hell, it seems pretty clear that we are getting better pro fields at every single race this year precisely because the T100 Tour exists and thus the IM Pro Tour exists as well. Pretty sure someone could run the SOF scores for this year vs last and share that with us. Are you up for that Ajax Bay? You are right that LCB would race Nice if the T100 did not exist, but I much prefer athletes having more choice, especially when the races are more competitive, not less. It also seems like Kona is going to be one of the best fields we've ever seen so this has as much to do with Kona/Nice as it does with T100.

2. The PTO/T100 identity makes no sense as has been discussed extensively around here. What they are trying to accomplish, making middle distance triathlon popular enough to sell broadcast rights, is never going to happen so I'm just going to enjoy every race of theirs while they are still around.

3. They are unquestionably an unorganized mess, which we've seen every step of the way. It is very unfortunate as I'd gladly give them my money today to sign up for Las Vegas.

Could all of the money they've spent been put to better use? Yes, absolutely.
Is the T100 Tour stupid? No, I don't think so.
Last edited by: Lagoon: Apr 26, 24 8:50
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [Lagoon] [ In reply to ]
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+1

I also get the feeling that some, like Chevalier are taking the money knowing that it may not last much longer. They are also racing Kona because the WC has history and value for their sponsors.

I love the sport and the athletes yet it is a bit boring if the broadcast does not achieve a TdF level broadcast. They are giving away loads of money to the athletes and not spending enough on showing the product.
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [Lagoon] [ In reply to ]
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PBT_2009 wrote:
[Precised!]Weakened pro fields
· The IM world championship this year will be a seriously weakened field, as LCB the defending champ has said she will not go.
· Pros are choosing between T100 and Ironman events is not good for strength of pro fields, and I think that's a detriment to the sport's overall community.
· We don't get to see the best battle the best when they should be doing so.
Lagoon wrote:
I completely disagree on the weakened fields. Hell, it seems pretty clear that we are getting better pro fields at every single race this year precisely because the T100 Tour exists and thus the IM Pro Tour exists as well. Pretty sure someone could run the SOF scores for this year vs last and share that with us. Are you up for that Ajax Bay?
Thank you for asking and only addressing that point of @PBT's magnum opus.
Given we haven't got a comparison for the amazing PTO European Open (Ibiza) I looked at the SOFs at Oceanside and Texas in 2022, 23 and 24.
Oceanside Men: 79>84>85, Women 79>87>89
Texas Men: 78>80>85, Women 59>77>81
Suggests all were or will be stronger fields, year on year. (Caveat: there may be underlying PTO Ranking points creep: I have not done that math.)
I'd say Oceanside was about the same 'strength' as last year, men and women. The women last year had 5 top women. This year just 3. The Men 2024 SOF was flattered by the influence not of T100 but the IM Pro Series, attracting Lange, and the 2023 men SOF does not reflect Bergere (no PTO scores x3) on the list.
Texas, again, has benefitted from the IM Pro Series designation. Note that this is a direct result of the T100 Tour being set up. Blame where blame's due.

On @PBT's take (bullets above), I think they are based on shaky analysis.
1) Nice and Kona are going to be stacked. Focussing on one young lady who recognises her weaknesses and has chosen not to compete is a fixation.
2) Virtually every top athlete is racing the T100s (who is missing? Lange. Anyone else? Noone else missing because of Ironman) We saw fields stronger than any 70.3 worlds since 2019.
3) We have got to see the best battle the best, and San Francisco and London will be even better. After the Olympics it'll be wicked (replace up-to-date age-appropriate jargon).
4) The location of the Grand Final is . . . . in the Middle East as I understand it [Spoiler/]to be revealed
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
PBT_2009 wrote:
[Precised!]Weakened pro fields
· The IM world championship this year will be a seriously weakened field, as LCB the defending champ has said she will not go.
· Pros are choosing between T100 and Ironman events is not good for strength of pro fields, and I think that's a detriment to the sport's overall community.
· We don't get to see the best battle the best when they should be doing so.

Lagoon wrote:
I completely disagree on the weakened fields. Hell, it seems pretty clear that we are getting better pro fields at every single race this year precisely because the T100 Tour exists and thus the IM Pro Tour exists as well. Pretty sure someone could run the SOF scores for this year vs last and share that with us. Are you up for that Ajax Bay?
Thank you for asking and only addressing that point of @PBT's magnum opus.
Given we haven't got a comparison for the amazing PTO European Open (Ibiza) I looked at the SOFs at Oceanside and Texas in 2022, 23 and 24.
Oceanside Men: 79>84>85, Women 79>87>89
Texas Men: 78>80>85, Women 59>77>81
Suggests all were or will be stronger fields, year on year. (Caveat: there may be underlying PTO Ranking points creep: I have not done that math.)
I'd say Oceanside was about the same 'strength' as last year, men and women. The women last year had 5 top women. This year just 3. The Men 2024 SOF was flattered by the influence not of T100 but the IM Pro Series, attracting Lange, and the 2023 men SOF does not reflect Bergere (no PTO scores x3) on the list.
Texas, again, has benefitted from the IM Pro Series designation. Note that this is a direct result of the T100 Tour being set up. Blame where blame's due.

On @PBT's take (bullets above), I think they are based on shaky analysis.
1) Nice and Kona are going to be stacked. Focussing on one young lady who recognises her weaknesses and has chosen not to compete is a fixation.
2) Virtually every top athlete is racing the T100s (who is missing? Lange. Anyone else? Noone else missing because of Ironman) We saw fields stronger than any 70.3 worlds since 2019.
3) We have got to see the best battle the best, and San Francisco and London will be even better. After the Olympics it'll be wicked (replace up-to-date age-appropriate jargon).
4) The location of the Grand Final is . . . . in the Middle East as I understand it [Spoiler/]to be revealed

Totally agree with you. Just to add Blummenfelt and Sanders are missing too from the T100.
This is a transition year, on what has been a short olympic cycle due to covid. Post-olympics it'll be mayhem, with lots of short course athletes trying to get into long distance, with someone already trying with amazing results (Bergere, Van Riel, Wilde) and some failing for now (e.g. Tom Richard and Sanchez Mantecon in Valencia)
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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when the T100 website was launched, Oman was indicated as the final's venue. I did not copy and paste it but it was funny. one of many blunders for the PTO
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [jcgiraSHT] [ In reply to ]
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"They might be the world’s ultimate athletes but each race in the 2024 T100 Triathlon World Tour will test triathlon’s biggest stars to the limit. With varied courses, terrains and conditions, plus the need to stay physically and mentally strong across a long and demanding season, only the best will earn the title of T100 World Champion following the Xxxx T100 Grand Final."
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Apr 26, 24 10:26
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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Looking for a Pro Triathlon series combined with Age Group racing and broadcast by a mainstream media partner?

Can't wait for Supertri - Boston!
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
PBT_2009 wrote:
[Precised!]Weakened pro fields
· The IM world championship this year will be a seriously weakened field, as LCB the defending champ has said she will not go.
· Pros are choosing between T100 and Ironman events is not good for strength of pro fields, and I think that's a detriment to the sport's overall community.
· We don't get to see the best battle the best when they should be doing so.

Lagoon wrote:
I completely disagree on the weakened fields. Hell, it seems pretty clear that we are getting better pro fields at every single race this year precisely because the T100 Tour exists and thus the IM Pro Tour exists as well. Pretty sure someone could run the SOF scores for this year vs last and share that with us. Are you up for that Ajax Bay?
Thank you for asking and only addressing that point of @PBT's magnum opus.
Given we haven't got a comparison for the amazing PTO European Open (Ibiza) I looked at the SOFs at Oceanside and Texas in 2022, 23 and 24.
Oceanside Men: 79>84>85, Women 79>87>89
Texas Men: 78>80>85, Women 59>77>81
Suggests all were or will be stronger fields, year on year. (Caveat: there may be underlying PTO Ranking points creep: I have not done that math.)
I'd say Oceanside was about the same 'strength' as last year, men and women. The women last year had 5 top women. This year just 3. The Men 2024 SOF was flattered by the influence not of T100 but the IM Pro Series, attracting Lange, and the 2023 men SOF does not reflect Bergere (no PTO scores x3) on the list.
Texas, again, has benefitted from the IM Pro Series designation. Note that this is a direct result of the T100 Tour being set up. Blame where blame's due.

On @PBT's take (bullets above), I think they are based on shaky analysis.
1) Nice and Kona are going to be stacked. Focussing on one young lady who recognises her weaknesses and has chosen not to compete is a fixation.
2) Virtually every top athlete is racing the T100s (who is missing? Lange. Anyone else? Noone else missing because of Ironman) We saw fields stronger than any 70.3 worlds since 2019.
3) We have got to see the best battle the best, and San Francisco and London will be even better. After the Olympics it'll be wicked (replace up-to-date age-appropriate jargon).
4) The location of the Grand Final is . . . . in the Middle East as I understand it [Spoiler/]to be revealed


To your points:

1) perhaps, but i'd say its a fixation to say it's her "bike handling weakness" as to why she isn't defending her title in our sports most important race. that's BS. T100 is the reason. And, let's think larger, not just one person one race. If in the first year of its existence, T100 is pulling IM world champions away from defending their titles, other dominoes will fall moving forward in terms of others not racing in what are traditionally our sports most important events.

2) Lionel is the only other name that comes to mind in terms of "top" men, but there's also a major factor to consider as time goes forward here: contracted T100 athletes are going to have WAY more chances to generate race results which benefit themselves in the rankings. You need a T100 contract to really be in that club. So the best will have a proportionally tighter grip on opportunities to stay at the top, and PTO can keep showing the rankings and say "look, we have 18 of the top 20 in the world". PTO makes the rankings. It's not an unbiased source. I know the data behind these metrics is extensive, but I guarantee you they would not structure it in a way such that someone (or a few) who is/are killing it on the IM pro series circuit could be #1. That is major financial egg on the face for PTO. So let's not just blindly say T100 tour has the best and not question those claims as at least being SOME percentage of marketing/data BS.

3) Yes, this is a weird year because of the olympics as well. San Fran - lets not forget the athletes who usually compete there and try to make a name for themselves at escape from alcatraz. now those atheletes can't do that because T100 has taken over that spotlight and forced them out in their quest to have a circuit complete enough to make athletes choose between T100 and Ironman. Or be able to do both. They had to crowd their calendar so that people would not be able to do that. A conscious choice. ST almost universally shames IM for doing this type of thing, stepping on toes of independent races, and now T100 does it and it's just fine?

4) yay (??).
Last edited by: PBT_2009: Apr 26, 24 11:23
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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PBT_2009 wrote:
1. Weakened pro fields ... But, the fact that pros are choosing between T100 and Ironman events is not good for strength of pro fields, and i think that's a detriment to the sport's overall community. just as that dynamic was with golf. we don't get to see the best battle the best when they should be doing so.

The top triathletes have pretty much all committed to 6 or more T100 races. So yeah, they kinda had to chose between T100 and Ironman, but thankfully they mostly all made the same choice so we get to watch them race each other.

Many of the top triathletes are also doing some Ironman races, which is great for the fields at those races.

Overall, I think we'll see the best battle the best more this year than prior years.

I think what bothers some people is that the best aren't battling the best at Ironman branded races. St. George is coming up as the third Ironman Pro Series race and most of the very best won't be there because they aren't prioritizing the Ironman series.

But all the top triathletes wouldn't be battling at St. George without the T100 either (because there also wouldn't be an Ironman Pro Series without T100). For years Ironman expanded their professional race opportunities and diluted their fields. They failed to create a format that encouraged the best to race each other frequently. Now that format exists but Ironman has lost out for now.
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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Well that pile of money is being spent chasing a speculative investment to own the next big thing in sports broadcasting.

So it's not like investors will just allocate that money to pros to be nice if they didn't have the chance of owning something.

From a growing the sport perspective, more events is almost always better.

Do you think less or people are excited about triathlon in Singapore because the T100 was there?

For sure it helps.

Conversely, I don't think the critical mass of triathlon growth scales get tipped negative at Nice because Lucy isn't there.

Could money be better or more effectively spent? Sure. But every central planner would love to reorganize an economy to make it ideal. And in the long term the market wins.

Let the PTO try and fail or succeed.

Doesn't mean we shouldnt call out dumb moves though
Last edited by: Lurker4: Apr 26, 24 14:17
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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PBT_2009 wrote:
Ajax Bay wrote:
PBT_2009 wrote:
[Precised!]Weakened pro fields
· The IM world championship this year will be a seriously weakened field, as LCB the defending champ has said she will not go.
· Pros are choosing between T100 and Ironman events is not good for strength of pro fields, and I think that's a detriment to the sport's overall community.
· We don't get to see the best battle the best when they should be doing so.

On @PBT's take (bullets above), I think they are based on shaky analysis.
1) Nice and Kona are going to be stacked. Focussing on one young lady who recognises her weaknesses and has chosen not to compete is a fixation.
2) Virtually every top athlete is racing the T100s (who is missing? Lange. Anyone else? Noone else missing because of Ironman) We saw fields stronger than any 70.3 worlds since 2019.
3) We have got [+ will get] to see the best battle the best . . . [in the T100s and, for long distance, at Nice and Kona]

To your points:

1) perhaps, but i'd say its a fixation to say it's her "bike handling weakness" as to why she isn't defending her title in our sports most important race. that's BS. T100 is the reason. And, let's think larger, not just one person one race. If in the first year of its existence, T100 is pulling IM world champions away from defending their titles, other dominoes will fall moving forward in terms of others not racing in what are traditionally our sports most important events.

2) Lionel is the only other name that comes to mind in terms of "top" men, but there's also a major factor to consider as time goes forward here: contracted T100 athletes are going to have WAY more chances to generate race results which benefit themselves in the rankings. You need a T100 contract to really be in that club. So the best will have a proportionally tighter grip on opportunities to stay at the top, and PTO can keep showing the rankings and say "look, we have 18 of the top 20 in the world". PTO makes the rankings. It's not an unbiased source. I know the data behind these metrics is extensive, but I guarantee you they would not structure it in a way such that someone (or a few) who is/are killing it on the IM pro series circuit could be #1. That is major financial egg on the face for PTO. So let's not just blindly say T100 tour has the best and not question those claims as at least being SOME percentage of marketing/data BS.
1a) I was actually thinking of LCB's lack of robustness and tendency to injury, rather than her downhill skill and boldness, or lack of. T100 gives every IM-capable/volitional athlete a choice. Nearly all are choosing to race IMWC. She's the exception that doesn't prove/support your hypothesis.
1b) PBT: "If in the first year of its existence, T100 is pulling IM world champions away from defending their titles, other dominoes will fall moving forward in terms of others not racing in what are traditionally our sports most important events"
Let’s list the ‘world champions (IM and 70.3)’ still competing: Ryf, Lange, Haug, Sodaro, LCB, Knibb, Iden, Blummenfelt, Bogen, Laidlow. All but the Norges and Lange are T100 contracted. I expect all of them to race either IMWC or 70.3WC Taupo. To whom we can add RvB, Kanute, Philipp, Long, Moench, Gentle, Matthews, Simmonds, Lee, West, Currie. Then add in those inbound from short course: van Riel, Bergère, Stornes, Wilde, Schoeman, Meißner.
As an aside on the last clause, times change and I expect that after this year the middle distance race styled by Ironman as the IM70.3 WC ('cos that's their AG model) will diminish in importance as triathlon's world governing body recognised Middle Distance World Champion relegates the 2025 Costa del Sol (or wherever IM choose to stage it) event.

You talked earlier about "crowding their calendar" and forcing athletes to choose.
The 2025 VinFast IRONMAN 70.3 World Championship on 8-9 November 2025 in Marbella, Spain is going to force female IM-capable/volitional athletes to choose (since Kona mid October, much the same as St George 70.3 did in 2022). This year Taupo's pre-Christmas date makes it doable for all (and the PTO took that into account when they settled the 2024 tour calendar).

2a) Hate to break it to you: Sanders was not "top man" in world performance terms last year.
https://stats.protriathletes.org/athlete/lionel-sanders
He was, nevertheless, offered a T100 'hot shot' slot as a capable athlete and top youtuber. He turned it down. So the T100 didn't "pull that double IM vice-world champion away from" challenging once again for IMWC glory. Best of luck to him and hope his injury is manageable and quickly rehabbed (and he hits the pool for 25km each week during that recovery). If he can replicate or better improve on his Oceanside form, importantly in the top tier high SOF races (Kona and Taupo, and maybe one T100), he has every chance of being top PTO ranked #16 by year's end.

2b) PBT: "PTO rankings. . . but I guarantee you [PTO] would not structure it in a way such that someone . . who is killing it on the IM pro series circuit could be #1." Au contraire mon freire. That's exactly what Renouf said could be done. But he said they'd probably have to win (or close) both Nice/Kona and Taupo.
Who are the favourites for the IM Pro Series you had in mind? Lange - his handicap is he's magnificent at long distance but less so at middle distance (so high scoring at Taupo is out imho). Currie has to be in with a great shout. Matthews? She has to complete three events before Nice (22 Sep). If she finishes OK tomorrow (calf dependent) I can see her winning another IM in June/July, a 70.3 in August, and then Nice (T100 SF and London to interleave). And a Lahti 2023 performance in December will get her excellent points to seal it. Otherwise Langridge will plod on. But I digress.
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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I've been saying this stuff for...years now? Welcome to the club :D

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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these are all fair points. i don't agree entirely but that's the beauty of this.

the 2025 70.3 and IM champs being tight is due to the rotation to oceania. that's not the norm. but your point is noted.

lionel wasn't quite himself last year, but he podiumed at nearly every 70.3 he did, and his DQ at 70.3 worlds was complete bullshit. I think he had a great shot to podium and perhaps even win that race. if he podiums there this is a completely different discussion, and we will never know on that one. and he won oceanside this year, so i'd say yeah he's not #1 in the world but he's a tier 1 or perhaps tier 1a athlete right now.
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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PBT_2009 wrote:
these are all fair points. i don't agree entirely but that's the beauty of this.

the 2025 70.3 and IM champs being tight is due to the rotation to oceania. that's not the norm. but your point is noted.

lionel wasn't quite himself last year, but he podiumed at nearly every 70.3 he did, and his DQ at 70.3 worlds was complete bullshit. I think he had a great shot to podium and perhaps even win that race. if he podiums there this is a completely different discussion, and we will never know on that one. and he won oceanside this year, so i'd say yeah he's not #1 in the world but he's a tier 1 or perhaps tier 1a athlete right now.
Rotation to Oceania in 2025 not understood.

Sanders soi-même podiumed at many lower tier, low SOF US 70.3s in 2023. After a supreme effort to travel abroad and race, his DQ at Lahti was very disappointing: he was up for an excellent result. With #5 he would have scored 88 and that would've put him right on the edge of T100 contract (about equal with McNamee/Keulen) on 4 December. In the event he was offered a hotshot slot (refused):presumably he would not have signed even if he'd been in the top 16. Full focus on the IMWC is incompatible with a T100 campaign. Sanders has taken a similar approach to Lange (though the latter, as a capable. proven multi-full distance athlete is in for the IM Pro Series as well).
His result in his only other competitive race: the PTO US Open Milwaukee was #11. I think that reflects where he was last year (can add in at least another half dozen athletes who were not racing) so Sanders was top 20 last year.
This year, if you take Long as the benchmark for a read across to T100, Sanders would be right up there. I hope we may see him climb the Baker Beach ladder in 6 weeks, once rehabbed.
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, meant 2024. It's in December this year because of the climate in new Zealand. That's when summer is there.

And this thread isnt for Lionel. That conversation can be had elsewhere. I don't want to derail things
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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Fully agree. Pro triathletes are still in need of a Union. No need of another ITU/WorldTriathlon/WTCIronman/Whatsoever thing.

STRAVA INSTAGRAM
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Re: T100 Tour Is Stupid [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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PBT_2009 wrote:
Sorry, meant 2024. It's in December this year because of the climate in new Zealand. That's when summer is there.
The pandemic disruptions and then the split IMWC venues (to cope with the two days racing needed to allow the number of women to increase) has meant the standard gap of 4 or 5 weeks between the 70.3WC and IMWC (see 2014-2019) has disintegrated.
In 2021 there was no IMWC.
In 2022 we saw the 70.3s 20 days after Kona.
In 2023 we saw Lahti in August - which was fine for the women (though several lured off to the T100 in Singapore) but for the men looking to Nice it was too close.
This year the date of Taupo is fine, but it does require athletes to extend their season an extraordinarily long time. Fortunately the 'not stupid' T100 tour allows athletes to have competitive races in October (not IMWC men) and in November: which will be great.
But in 2025 Ironman have been forced to go for Spain only weeks after Kona, which will impact the women's field, I regret. Both men's and women's fields on the Costa del Sol will be hollowed out by the T100 Grand Final in 2025 which is certain to be in November. Maybe Ironman have engineered this likely clash. Whatever Taupo is going to be the last competitive 70.3 world champs while there is a bona fide middle distance world championships to be raced by the top tier athletes.
One remedy would be for Ironman to schedule their middle distance WC at least 4 weeks before the first (of two) IMWCs: the one in Nice (so in August). Hopefully they try that for 2026 and choose a venue where the temperature is not typically in the 80s.
Anyway - must dash: IM Texas is starting!
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