If you finish a loop in 25min, it is a 5min break, etc.

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

If you finish a 5K loop in 25 minutes, you're too fast for ultras

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

30m 5k =9:40/mile. Assuming the laps are flat and on road you should be able to do a lot.

Huge question --- Are you allowed to start the next loop early if you finish before 30 min? That would change the entire strategy. Say you do a conservative 7:30 pace for 2 laps, stop 2 min to grab food/water, and do this for 4h. You're 50 min ahead of pace. Use that buffer to actually eat, poop, rest, whatever. Or keep rolling until you can't run 9;40 pace anymore, at which point even going walking pace (just under 20:00/m) you can eke or an extra 2 laps.

If you have to wait to start on the half hour it gets much harder

You’re not allowed to start the next lap early.

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Well shit

each lap would need 200m of climbing.

How difficult is the 5k course? And what surfaces? I’d wager flat smooth dirt would be the easiest to run a lot on, and hilly terrain could make this race end quick.

I ran a 2:55 road marathon this fall, but I’m not an ultrarunner. I would guess I could do around 60k (~6 hours) on good terrain with those race terms. Serious ultrarunners might go twice as long or more…

I'd be out by 4 laps these days.

25 years ago, 25 laps no problems.

I did one of the backyard ultras where you need to do 4.1miles per hour... i completed 10 and started the 11th one and had to bail out because of some stupid injury i picked up a few weeks prior. The winner did 22 or 23 laps I think.
5k in 30 mins sounds pretty hard. If all participants are of average talent, I'd say that finishing 30-32 laps would be enough to win.

---

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Agree that 5km / 30m is fast. The backyard ultra format is aimed at 100 miles / 24 hrs. 5km / 30m is ~150 miles / per 24 hrs. 50% faster.

The backyard ultra record is 450 miles. Yeah.... 4 1/2 days with only a few minutes sleep every hour. Sounds horrible.

I managed 9 or so laps back in 2020 (maybe it was 2021? It was Herberts idea)... I think I ran at about 10min pace, leaving 20min rest per hour...i think that was too fast and I should have done more like 11min pace. I was in 40m / 10km pace back then.

Mathematics strategy of "Faster for more rest" doesn't pay out right. As slow as possible, while leaving time for "business" pays better.

I’’m 63 yo. Last Feb I placed 6th in the 60-64 ag at a flat, competitive Houston area half marathon with 45 people in the 60-64 ag. The weather was about perfect at 39f/3c at the start.

I ran a 10:07 pace, negative split. My goal this year 9:30 pace and I hope I can move up a place or two.

So, 5k 30 min = one with possibly two, unlikely three. That’s if it’s flat and the weather is about perfect. The five guys ahead of me might could do four or five. I don’t know that any of us could call it an ultra.

30 mins for those over 60 (maybe a little younger) is fast. So, if you primarily want young people, you’re probably good. When I was in my early 20s, I could do a 5k in under 18 mins. For old, trained, non-elite but pretty fast folks, 40mins might be reasonable.

But I would give it everything I have if it was my “A” race.

---

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

My impression was that "backyard" events purposely had fairly slow paces required to complete any given lap as a way to expand the range of people who could realistically compete. Sub10 min/mi feels quick for such an event. 45min/5k lap seems more "traditional."

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

No, the hourly requirement of 4.1 miles each hour is purely geared toward competitors covering 100 miles each 24 hours. Which is fine if the organisers, volunteers, runners and crews are prepared for the possibility of the event lasting longer than a weekend.

5km each half hour is a reasonable concept if you're looking to conclude the race within a day or so.

But if you can't run a marathon under 4:10, you're not going to be running an ultra in this event.

This ^^
48 x 5km is 240km and top people can do that (flat and benign surface).

I 'think' that I could go 9-10 hours if there isn't too much elevation change. I can run a 24 minute 5K right now and hardly break a sweat.

I have raced the backyard ultra format three times.

First time I thought that going fast and finishing around 35 minutes would be the way to go. This was wrong. I was wrecked and dropped out at the seventh hour. Going fast to bank time puts way too much stress on the body. You need to shuffle around at 10-11 minute pace (which you obviously can't do for a 30 minute 5K).

Second time I learned my lesson and slowed way down. In the middle of the night I took a funny step and tore my medial meniscus. Made it three more laps but the discomfort made me drop out after 19 hours.

Third try I made it 25 hours. Last 5-6 hours I was suffering from debilitating knee discomfort. Everything felt great, muscles, nutrition, sleep, etc.... I felt like I could keep going indefinitely except for the knees were super uncomfortable. It became a little sobering to realize that if I could suck up the discomfort that I could keep doing it for a long time..... I finally decided that I'd had enough. Interestingly, the knees have not yet completely recovered in the almost seven months since. I have had both knees surgically fixed and have run for years with very little knee pain, but running 25 hours in a row has damaged me. I think that if I want to keep running long-term, this format may not be for me.

It's an interesting physical and psychological challenge.

---

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

Your current marathon time is a better predictor of how you'd fare, rather than your 5km times.

3:00:44. Still working on that sub 3:00....

---

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

An evenly paced 10 hour - 100km is well within your ability and fitness.

"Top people" have better things to do

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Yes, many of the world's top ultra runners were in Taipei this weekend.

"Miho Nakata from Japan and Aleksandr Sorokin from Lithuania are 2023 IAU 24H World Champions. Miho set new IAU 24H World Record 270.363 km (subject to ratification). For Sorokin this is a second World title in a row as he was World Champion in 2019 as well. This was 3rd time when he did over 300 km in 24H race."

I was thinking more along the lines of a "Top people" Beer Mile

One day, four laps, good laughs, a bunch of YouTube / IG content; easy-peasy, in & out

ETA: Backyard/"laps for time" format does NOT make it an Ultra - you have to exceed 26.2 miles/42K to call it an Ultra, so someone would have to complete 9 x 5K laps to claim

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Agreed re 9 x 5km laps, as per post #14.

Backyard format is an ultra for the large majority of participants. The format just takes an unusually long time, almost 7 hours, for everyone to get into ultra territory.

Backyard events are designed to be ultras in the manner as other time-based ultras are.

Someone can enter a 24 hour race and finish on the race results with 22 miles; they've entered and run in an ultra, but its hard to argue they actually ran an ultra marathon. But that doesn't change whether the race itself is an ultra or not.

Same applies to Backyard ultras.

Good points

The one mile per hour x 24 hours might not BE an ultra, mileage-wise, but I'll bet it sure feels like one

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin