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Re: What is the latest / best / updated "gold standard" for establishing IM race goal watts?? [Schmidt-DK] [ In reply to ]
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Schmidt-DK wrote:
I fuel like in a race - around 50-60 grams pr hour. I run loops or have my girlfriend on a bike with bottles :)

I eat full breakfast before and I don’t try to limit carbs, as I think my limiter is my muscular Endurance and not my ability to ‘turn over energy’ <—- sorry I don’t know the english explanation/words


Thank you, makes perfect sense.

http://www.tri-monkey.co.uk
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Re: What is the latest / best / updated "gold standard" for establishing IM race goal watts?? [Engner66]& mathematics [ In reply to ]
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Engner66 wrote:
.

2x50+ 2x 30 + 2 x20 @ IM power or just above is not hard at all if you really are in IM shape. Anyone struggling to complete this building into an IM really has to assess if their 5 hour power goal is realistic.

mathematics wrote:

Couldn't agree more with your first paragraph. I think the issue is that a lot of participants look at the 'last block of training' as the only block of training. People often expect a small miracle to occur on race day.



TRUTHS ^^^^^^^^^

most people, maybe not most ST people, but most the people at any IM typically look at their training block as the only block to prep for an IM.

If someone has truly prepared their season correctly they will have a ton of data from around 4h rides that they can easily look through and figure out where they are at for an IM effort.

The issue i see with many people is they do their intervals on the week and then just ride on the weekend instead of doing hard work during their long(er)(est) ride(s).

2x50 + 2x30 at half IM effort is a really solid set (your thoughts may differ on that) inside a 4.5h ride. A bunch of hard zwift vo2 or race workouts that are around 60-90min isn't the best prep for an IM bike leg.

IM effort isn't really shouldn't be that much different than ride around all day effort. If it is you're probably reducing your margin of error for a successful race. I'd further argue that your IM bike ride should be one of your easier long rides of those last 6-8 weeks of training.

If you're training all the time at xxx watts and you want to race at xxx + 10 or 15 watts I'd argue you're doing it wrong.

Anyway some random non caffeinated thoughts. hope that helps

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Last edited by: desert dude: Oct 27, 23 7:36
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Re: What is the latest / best / updated "gold standard" for establishing IM race goal watts?? [Engner66]& mathematics [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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I love it when some folks on Strava are like "3 x 6 min @ IM power...feeling really strong today!"
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Re: What is the latest / best / updated "gold standard" for establishing IM race goal watts?? [Engner66]& mathematics [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
I'd further argue that your IM bike ride should be one of your easier long rides of those last 6-8 weeks of training.

Is it just the RPE difference between being tapered vs in-block training fatigue? Or is is because those long rides in IM training should be down above IM effort (like you're example of including 70.3 efforts into the long ride)?
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Re: What is the latest / best / updated "gold standard" for establishing IM race goal watts?? [mgreer] [ In reply to ]
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mgreer wrote:
desert dude wrote:
I'd further argue that your IM bike ride should be one of your easier long rides of those last 6-8 weeks of training.

Is it just the RPE difference between being tapered vs in-block training fatigue? Or is is because those long rides in IM training should be down above IM effort (like you're example of including 70.3 efforts into the long ride)?

given the nature of an interval ride vs steady state (which is how you should be riding the IM bike ride as an AG athlete - pro's are a different story) the IM bike ride should feel easier, if you're trying to optimize how fast you get to the finish line of the race

if you're doing say 4x(40 min half IM effort + 10min zn2) you're overall demand will be higher than if you just rode steady effort for that duration. if you look at wattage you may see that a steady state ride ends with an avg power of 190w where as the interval ride may be at 205. most people will have a higher PRE for the interval ride vs steady state.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: What is the latest / best / updated "gold standard" for establishing IM race goal watts?? [Schmidt-DK] [ In reply to ]
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Schmidt-DK wrote:

To make sure - try to swim hard in the morning, bike 5 hours including 4x50 minutes @ racepace and then run your long run the day after. How did the run feel? If it takes more than 4-5k to feel "normal," then you went too hard on the bike the day before (or didn't fuel enough during or after the bike).

Sounds like a Gordo Bryn workout.

blog
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Re: What is the latest / best / updated "gold standard" for establishing IM race goal watts?? [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
mgreer wrote:
Mulen wrote:
I've probably over-biked in all 3 of my IMs based on my run performance compared to open marathon performance (~+30 minutes vs +15 rule of thumb),


I know that its a theory that you can run your IM marathon at +15-20 minutes compared to your open marathon time, but I don't see many people doing it in the AG ranks. The vast majority, even those getting good results, are more like 25-30.

I did a "fun" experiment at IMTX this year. The context was that I was training for the Comrades Marathon (89km ultra road race in South Africa), which has about 20,000 participants. Your start corral is based on your qualifying marathon time, with the front one (the A group) requiring a sub 3 open marathon. However, you can also qualify with an Ironman run time, which for the same A group qualification, only requires a sub 3:30 run. I did my winter training block, with everything on target for a sub 3 at the Houston marathon. However in the race I had a super weird issue with quads totally seizing at mile 11. I walked the rest of the marathon, since I had to at least finish one marathon to qualify for Comrades at all. It was something like a 4:25 which basically had me in a really bad starting batch for Comrades. So I had to do another marathon if I wanted a better time. I then did the LA marathon, aiming for just a decent qualification but not the best, conservatively shooting for a 3:30. I ended up doing 3:31 or something, so bettering my starting position but still not the best. I was holding back a little bit in that race because I didn't want to blow up again but I was totally spent at the end. Maybe at best I had a 3:20 in me that day.

So then I thought, what if I do IMTX, and just sandbag the whole race up until the run and then go for it. So I swam super easy, soft pedaled the bike, spent 20 minutes getting ready in T2 and then went for it on the run. I ended up with a 3:28, which although I've run faster than that before, was about the same as my best open marathon at that point in time. Of course, I gave up a lot of time on the bike (probably 40+ minutes at a guess) so this would be a really poor strategy to get a good IM time, but it does provide the extreme end of the spectrum for what happens if you save yourself on the bike. For what it's worth, my best overall IM times have been off really hard bike rides. It just becomes a gamble as to whether or not you blow up on the run. For me, the main factor in blowing up (or not) on the run was always related to the bike hydration, heat management or nutrition, not the bike power output itself in isolation.

____________________________________

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Re: What is the latest / best / updated "gold standard" for establishing IM race goal watts?? [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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Or Jens Petersen-Bach ;)

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Long Distance PB: 8:25
Instagram: larsschmidttri
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