I think you are right. More opportunities to pull athletes into the pro ranks to give it a go. We will see more athletes showing up and more breakout performances.

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USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach

Interesting article on tri247

Messick talks of cooperation with the PTO athlete board.

He also talks about 20m and race ranger

My my how times are changing.....

We'd heard something smoldering in re: RaceRanger. But we didn't have it concrete.

On the rulebook front, and this is something worth having another conversation with Andrew (or Jimmy, for that matter), on, is how the bike rules, as written, really don't contemplate some of the situations that have arisen over the years (e.g., three-wide racing; the concept of slotting in and how that dynamic distance might be (is it slotting in if the person in the middle is just falling out of the back of the draft zone?)).

It'll make next year fun at least!

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Remind me again...So the PTO is going to have a "middle world championship", will that be an "invite" only start list and/or you only quailify through the PTO series; which means it's basically the pto contracted athletes + whatever "wildcards" they get to fill races?

Has it been announced how that world championship start list is determined? Or is it part of the 6 race series? With so much PTO news, some of the ideas are starting to merge together in my brain.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

 
I find it interesting how it contrasts with his rhetoric less than a year ago. I guess only fools don't change their mind

When do you believe they will announce Diane Bertsch's promotion (or whoever they chose) :-) ?

Reminder that "this is the way we've always done it" are the most dangerous words in business!

From what I understand, the CEO search is ongoing, and that's about all I know.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Aiui, the World Triathlon sanctioned Long Distance World Championship race for amateurs is going to be one of the PTO Series races: a specific race (of maybe 7) will be so designated. For the elites, the winner of the series will be crowned LD World Champion. No news on start lists per se but each pro race is expected to have 20-25 starters: a combo of the 16 contracted athletes plus wild cards.
If 2023 Gentle turns up it's difficult to see her being beaten as the ones who might have IM(or Olympic) fish to fry. In the men it's a more open question.
Isn't merging ideas (in the brain) a good thing?
PS What other "so much PTO news"? What's the latest? I'm expecting the PTO calendar any day now: well it was promised by Renouf for October.

Thanks, couldn't rememember if it was a specific world championship pro event, it sounds like they are doing what they do at WTCS, have a "grand final" type of event but the series winner is the overall champion.

The news that PTO is likely looking to connect with WTCS events would be likely really smart and imo one way to keep it's infrastructure costs at mimimum.

The slight cringeworthy part in all of this is the idea that the PTO who's the acting body for the pro's is also sorta right in the middle of all this "compeition" among leagues. While I understand why PTO doesn't want to merge with IM due likely more with the race distance, it's just interesting the dynamics of it all. IM basically did this because they feel threatened by the pto. So this was done more so to squash the threat then to benefit the pro sports, even though short term that's what will happen. But long term, if IM wins we'll just see how much long term benefit the pro's will get. So I guess it's ultimately interesting that "competition" made them want to do this, but yet it's likely only being done to squash the PTO; not likely to enhance / co habitat between the 2 "series".

So my summary- Maybe it's a totally inaccurate assessment but I think the PTO is still not sorta cemented itself in our sport, I think they are still very much in the "showcase" phase. So this type of "competition" while for the most part I dont think many of the athletes are that much of a crossover when talking about IM distance specific athletes (it's more the 70.3 athletes who have best chance of crossing over the 2 race series), but there is still imo an "competition" aspect of this that can hurt both parties. Whether either party want to suggest there is a "competition", but the very nature of these similiar race distances going basically heads up, there is an peacocking basically going on. So who wins in the end? I don't know that both series will be here long term, that's my worry and I did kinda chuckle at the irony about PTO applauding the IM move to help pro athletes on the socials while also likely being done to go heads up against PTO.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

looking at the stats on the PTO site, here are the athletes who could be contenders for the IM series:

1- Bradley WEISS started 3 and finished 3 full in the top 6, 70.3 racer yet not really suited for the PTO although he would bring an international flavour to the lineup. Of course, Ditlev or Laidlow would rank higher but may race the PTO and he is a surprise pick.

2- Sam LAIDLOW did start 3 full but failed on 2 out of 3. It may depend on what the PTO offers to recruit a IM star, won both half distance races he raced in 2023

3 - Magnus DITLEV will have raced 3 full by the end of the year, yet Roth seems to have taken its toll, PTO potential recruit, Roth may not fit either schedule this year

4- Matthew MARQUARDT had 3 good IM races, knows the Texas course, has not raced a single 70.3 but did ok in Milwaukee

5- Arthur HORSEAU raced 3 races and won 2, the European IM races may not suit his style of tough hilly courses.
Actually except for Lake Placid, the courses do not seem challenging.

6- Brian CURRIE raced 3 IM and finished 1st and 2nd and was at the front in Nice until the 'littering' call

7 - Rudy VON BERG raced 3 full in 2022 and is a strong proven 70.3 racer

8- Joe SKIPPER obviously one of the favourites but has had a couple of bad races, not a great 70.3 racer

9- Leon CHEVALIER raced 3 full in 2021 and 2022, does not seem suited to the PTO races given his bad result at PTO Ibiza, he won the 70.3 Les Sables race (but the field will be way tougher this year)

10- Mathias PETERSEN raced 3, finished 3 and 1st,

I think that the courses seem easy and likely to favour stronger runners. Indeed, the field will be way stronger than average which mean there will be big bike packs where it is easier to race from behind.

Patrick Lange would really fit this mould yet has only raced 3 times once, in 2022 (Roth, Kona and Israel)

I agree with all of this Ben. My plan was to not race any fulls next year, but for guys like us who are likely to be 5th-15th in the major 70.3s, do you think that will sneak us into the top 50?

Based on this year, it would. But obviously there will be a % of guys that decide to step up and do 1-3 of the fulls to chase the $5k+.

It'll be interesting just how many pros decide to do 3 out of the 6 available full distance races (and finish within 40-50 minutes of the top top guys, which is perhaps a little harder than it sounds if someone is going 7:40).

If it comes down to doing just ONE full to crack top 50 (i.e. Lake Placid, the last north American one except for Kona) within 45 minutes of a winner to grab $5k, it'll be kind of tempting. Is that of interest to you?

I'm planning on Oceanside St G Chat Mont Tremblant and 70.3 Worlds. So will be interesting to see if the 5x70.3 pathway gets me into the top 50 or not. I'm not chasing 5 grand, I think it'll be hard without at least one full.

It's my understanding that no, these are separate events from WTCS ones. It's just that there's a partnership arrangement between World Triathlon and the PTO, and these combined age group / pro races are supposed to be 6 events, announced by the end of this month.

But we don't know locations, prize purses, etc. outside of knowing the Asian Open will be in April in Singapore.

I thought they'd made the right call with tying them to existing events in 2023, but...here we are.

It might be that the PTO/WT Tour winds up being the "graduation" route for former WTCS athletes into longer racing, and then they eventually migrate over to the IM Series. Who knows. But there's still a lot of detail that needs to get nailed down.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Maybe I misheard, but based on Kris Gimmel's (who is a top official within WT), he could certainly see PTO + WTCS race locations joining forces. I mean PTO is going to have to do that whether it's an WTCS event, USAT Nationals, or whatever multiday festival it attaches too. So I guess a lot will be solved when they announce the PTO schedule.

(KG being in the position he is within WT normally has a pulse for what's happening so if he's mentioning it, it's likely a done deal....there's not really that many PTO athletes who also are full time WTCS athletes, so even if a few have to choose one or the other it's not that big of a deal imo)

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Lange is in for the IM challenge next year at least according to his comments on IG.

If you actually look at how Moritz races have been run, to even call them PTO races is a struggle. Soup to Nuts, Dallas was run by USAT. Milwaukee? USAT. Edmonton? True North. Ibiza? ITU. Singapore? Maybe them. What PTO has done there is laid on broadcast logistics. But they are doing 0 work as a event organizer. Which keeps a lot of costs down but leads to limited upside as the economics of triathlon are mass participation not TV rights. The sponsorship isn't even there to be reached through the various broadcasts, it's about getting in front of the on ground triathlete.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I think any top athlete not going all in (with contract) for the PTO Tour Series will surely be taking the designated races and the requirement for 3 + 2 into account when planning next season.
Lange and Skipper and Hanson are male examples. Can't see Lange or Skipper (#19) wanting to truck around for 100km races and Hanson (#45) wouldn't be offered a PTO contract. McNamee might be good for the IM series.Among the women, it's harder to see who might be a contender as so many of the IM capable top 20 are candidates for PTO contracts. The idea of racing at least 4 PTOs and another 5 for IM Series is barking. I could see Moench and Norden going for the IM series.
The fields for IM Texas, both men and women, is going to be sparkling, and Oceanside (an obvious double-up) will be even stronger than ever.

Welp, there goes MY chance at making history.

These contracts have yet to materialize and we have no idea the value, would need to be at least 50k, maybe even 100k to be frank to force someone to give up Ironman.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

50K contracts? I doubt so. If they are paying top 16 men and women 50k, that amounts to 1.6m + travel and accomodation cost. I will be very surprise if PTO can afford it. It is also not very clear if they meant top 16 men/women or 16 offered contracts which means 8 ladies and gents

Think there should be a more flexible approach where the athletes commit to 3 or 4. With the exception of the middle distance specialists, almost everyone else plan their year around Kona/Nice. They won’t be racing a PTO two weeks before a WC.

Based on the ladies pro interview, most if not all of them like the new IM system and I think most will commit to it and probably do a PTO race here and there if they get an invite

Noticed that Ironman site has a couple of typos and needs editing.

Vitoria (1st European full, is annouced on the 16th which is a Tuedsay, the race is actually on the 14th)

The prize money indicated on their pro event show that Nice and Austria have a 100K prize purse, yet those are single sex events, so that would mean that the winners earn 30K which is unlikely.
PRO Schedule


Somewhat unexpected from such a high level organization or maybe there is something i do not get.