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Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why
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The contracted athletes must fill several requirements

- Rank in the top 20
- Come from different countries, yet several may come from the US. In that regard, it would be really interesting to know which part of the globe follows PTO the most N. America or Europe and how much does the 'rest of the world ' represent. An idea for a poll, is who would you like to be recruited. Or even more who would you care about even though they are foreigners ; I must confess sport is always more intersesting if you have a dog in the fight.
Have different profiles = it may make no sense to ‘PTO draft’ Long if he is not along a couple of weaker swimmer/stronger rider who can ride with him.
Strong media/socials following (sounds like some influencer who has his own sticky thread)

So i draw a list with 3 main groups for the male athletes as i am not so knowledgeable about women racing

A / Front Pack Swimmers / All around athletes racing from the front WTS types
NEUMANN : ***** young athete who by virtue of having won PTO Europe 2023 should be an automatic qualifier. Yet, he only has this one good PTO result and may drop if he does not have a good race in Nice/ has not solved the problem which prevented him from participating in other races in 2023
KANUTE: *** top US performer
BAEKKEGARD ** no great win but always in the mix, being the 2nd danish athlete is one of his few shortcomings


Other candidates /rotating racers :
Royle - good swimmer who pushes the pace but has not really been a factor this year
Van Riel
Blummenfelt : from his inteviews, it sounds like he may be in for the races scheduled after the Olympics
Brownlee : he may be a great wildcard if he is healthy of course
Kyle Smith


B/ Second swim pack :
DITLEV - he is ranked very high and may be one of the faces needed to represent the TPO
WEST - has a great year, his profile (coming from behind) gives an element of drama/threat to the races.

Other candidates /rotating racers
HEEMERYCK** the Asian race put him in the mix, not a star but it sounds weird if Sam Long or Lionel are in and he is out.
MC NAMEE
MARQUARDT young upcoming US athlete


WEAKER SWIMMER
LONG ****
SANDERS *** he has had a couple of ok PTO races which showed he can still be a factor even if only at the back. He needs a decent result in Lathi to stay in the ranking game.
SKIPPER - not a great middle distance, but he is the only british athlete succeeding on longer distances, he has a following and is not a dull, soft spoken athlete
Again putting him along similar profiles make for a good storyline. The race is long enough and can be boring, so to see who is coming back is often more interesting than the front of the race. As many have commented it is one of the things PTO should work on. They did try to be interested in the race for 4 th place in Singapour

Now i will play advocate for the french guys as if 8 to 10 guys are selected only 1 or 2 can be in.

- LAIDLOW** will figure to the front, controversial, english speaking (which is not the forte of many french athletes), could be a cheaper selection as his stock has somewhat declined
- Denis CHEVROT also had a terrific race coming back from 14 out of 15 to 4th. I am convinced that if Matt Hanson had had the same race, it would have made WAY MORE noise whereas Chevrot did not get mentionned even once in the whole thread. PTO did acknowledge that he was one of the top 10 events from the race in their latest video but it could have been a better storyline on the live show.
- MARGIRIER, pretty much like HEEMERICK. I have him as most improved triathlete of the year by a fair margin ( WEST is next but he was not an unknown last year ) and he has had only good results so far. 70.3 World may show that he is the next Supercycliste (my french version of the german Uberbiker) and put him in the top 10
- MIGNON and CHEVALIER have had bad results in their PTO races and like many athletes Nice WC will decide how they stand; They may be seen as reserves/ alternates for some european races. Chevalier had a very poor race in Ibiza but if one of the races is really hilly, he could be a factor. A smart guy who speaks perfect english.


So to sum it up, here are my picks
1 - DITLEV
2 - NEUMANN
3- WEST
4 - LONG
5- KANUTE
6- SANDERS
7- BAEKEGARD
8 - SKIPPER
9 - HEEMERYCK
10 - LAIDLOW

Frodeno, Blum or Iden would be in this list if they agree to be part of the TPO tour

So who would be in your list?
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [jcgiraSHT] [ In reply to ]
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It is way too early to pick who "should" be part of the PTO Tour next year as the athletes are selected on PTO rankings and those rankings are really fluid. We also don't know what their wildcard criteria are with the new regional championship "qualifiers" now in play. Lionel for example will need a very generous wildcard as he has dropped to 27th on the rankings and if his projected schedule is correct,the only high scoring race he is doing in the foreseeable future is Lahti this weekend,a race he needs to do well in to score points for next year.

There is enough time between now and the first race next year for emerging talent to replace aging talent and we don't even know where or when the new races are. I am really looking forward to the series next year but won't get too horny over it until the race locations and dates are announced in October.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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not really interested who gets contracted as i dont care to much about their season narrative.
all i can say singapore with its small field was the most boring race of the 3 to me this year i think 30 is a better number as with 20 as soon you have a dns and a couple of dnfs and a couple of atheltes with off days the field is way to thin. and in a way the singapore bike course was the best of the 3 races.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
Lionel for example will need a very generous wildcard as he has dropped to 27th on the rankings and if his projected schedule is correct,

Maybe if the wildcards have a geographical component to them, ie PTO US Open : 5 wild cards, minimum 3 from US. This way 'local' athletes get the visibility and a shot at making some points and breaking through.

It will indeed be sad if some of the favorite athletes are relegated to B races only
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:

Maybe if the wildcards have a geographical component to them, ie PTO US Open : 5 wild cards, minimum 3 from US. This way 'local' athletes get the visibility and a shot at making some points and breaking through.
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Yep,that is along the lines of what I was thinking. Each continental race gets it's own "local" wild cards. It would not surprise me at all to see a PTO "Develpoment Team" whereby up and coming WTS elites (and possible junior world champions) get an invite as part of the deal with World Triathlon,who do have their youth development program already.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
marcag wrote:


Maybe if the wildcards have a geographical component to them, ie PTO US Open : 5 wild cards, minimum 3 from US. This way 'local' athletes get the visibility and a shot at making some points and breaking through.

.
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Yep,that is along the lines of what I was thinking. Each continental race gets it's own "local" wild cards. It would not surprise me at all to see a PTO "Develpoment Team" whereby up and coming WTS elites (and possible junior world champions) get an invite as part of the deal with World Triathlon,who do have their youth development program already.

Another idea. Along with the athlete board, a fan board. We put you on it as the chair. Sam, if you're reading, make this happen.....
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [pk] [ In reply to ]
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pk wrote:
not really interested who gets contracted as i dont care to much about their season narrative.
all i can say singapore with its small field was the most boring race of the 3 to me this year i think 30 is a better number as with 20 as soon you have a dns and a couple of dnfs and a couple of atheltes with off days the field is way to thin. and in a way the singapore bike course was the best of the 3 races.

It shows how spoilt we now are as Triathlon fans to call Singapore a boring race, I think we're in a golden era of pro racing, there's little interest in 70.3 Worlds at the moment also.

These fields about 8/5 years ago would have been classed as absolutely stacked and the whole forum would have been talking about themwhen people only had Kona to look forward to every year.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Just to be sure I did not say boring I said of the 3 pto races it was the most boring
And of course had Haug not had here inner tube issue the female race likely would have been a nail biter.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
marcag wrote:


Maybe if the wildcards have a geographical component to them, ie PTO US Open : 5 wild cards, minimum 3 from US. This way 'local' athletes get the visibility and a shot at making some points and breaking through.

.
.
Yep,that is along the lines of what I was thinking. Each continental race gets it's own "local" wild cards. It would not surprise me at all to see a PTO "Develpoment Team" whereby up and coming WTS elites (and possible junior world champions) get an invite as part of the deal with World Triathlon,who do have their youth development program already.

The local wild card model is basically what cycling uses for the grand tours, the world tour teams (aka contracted athletes), top ranking pro conti teams (top in PTO rankings outside of the contracts) and then a few wild cards at the organizers discretion which typically means domestic pro continental teams, or teams who share sponsors with the event...

The Junior world champs thing is a bit of a stretch for two reasons. Firstly, that is contested over the sprint distance, rather than the standard distance, and secondly, world tri rules have an age minimum for distances longer than the sprint (and given the partnership on the series, and that they are providing technical delegates, their rules will be in play)... so older juniors maybe, world U23 champs could work for sure.

I also am of the thought that a field of 30 makes more sense than a field of 20, increases the odds of a few people being on a good day and having more dynamic races, also brings into play the factor of wild cards, and surprise results impacting the overall series rankings (see WTCS last year, where a bizzaro grand finale landed Bergere as world champ, with a combo of his result, and a late pass from Hauser on Wilde...), which can help keep the suspense to the end of the season for the world title...
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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World champion juniors would no way be the best option for these races, world tri wouldn't allow it and their federations would not allow it. 2023 world champion likely be looking at the climb into world series rankings on the way to 2028 Olympics. There will likely be a lot of World series athletes after the Olympics looking to begin their careers in longer course, these athletes would be great wildcards as we have seen the changeover to this distance isn't too big a deal. Even the worst wtcs swimmers appear to be up there in the longer swims so most would be front pack athletes from the get go.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [jcgiraSHT] [ In reply to ]
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one thing i hope is that PTO always reserves a good number of wildcard places at every races, and uses the wildcards carefully to help create an interesting race dynamic, or compelling narrative, or whatever.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
pk wrote:
not really interested who gets contracted as i dont care to much about their season narrative.
all i can say singapore with its small field was the most boring race of the 3 to me this year i think 30 is a better number as with 20 as soon you have a dns and a couple of dnfs and a couple of atheltes with off days the field is way to thin. and in a way the singapore bike course was the best of the 3 races.


It shows how spoilt we now are as Triathlon fans to call Singapore a boring race, I think we're in a golden era of pro racing, there's little interest in 70.3 Worlds at the moment also.

These fields about 8/5 years ago would have been classed as absolutely stacked and the whole forum would have been talking about themwhen people only had Kona to look forward to every year.

Our page views beg to differ.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Jackets wrote:
pk wrote:
not really interested who gets contracted as i dont care to much about their season narrative.
all i can say singapore with its small field was the most boring race of the 3 to me this year i think 30 is a better number as with 20 as soon you have a dns and a couple of dnfs and a couple of atheltes with off days the field is way to thin. and in a way the singapore bike course was the best of the 3 races.


It shows how spoilt we now are as Triathlon fans to call Singapore a boring race, I think we're in a golden era of pro racing, there's little interest in 70.3 Worlds at the moment also.

These fields about 8/5 years ago would have been classed as absolutely stacked and the whole forum would have been talking about themwhen people only had Kona to look forward to every year.


Our page views beg to differ.


Based on my personal clicking, I would be careful on using views as a metric.

As triathlon junkies, we read what is available to us. If there was an abundance of good content, we would pick and chose and be more selective. In absence of content, we click what's available, slowly grow bored and find more appealing content elsewhere.

Content creation, be it from the site or the forum users is probably a greater or equal metric.

The best metric would be customer survey of their likes and dislikes. Escape collective did this a few weeks ago. The questions were quite interesting, as you could see they were truly trying to understand what their readers wanted.

I always thought STs gold was some of the high quality posts made by super competent members : the Chungs, the Coggans, the Damons, the Rappstars........that is what would drive clicks to what people are truly interested in.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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Specifically referring to forum stuff versus our decision making on what we wrote on the front page (although, again, those front page views shaped what races we decided to cover in 2023), for what it's worth.

Pageviews, time on page, event actions, social activity are primary metrics that I'm looking at on this stuff.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Specifically referring to forum stuff versus our decision making on what we wrote on the front page (although, again, those front page views shaped what races we decided to cover in 2023), for what it's worth.

Pageviews, time on page, event actions, social activity are primary metrics that I'm looking at on this stuff.

I would love to understand better how this works , for instance you covered Norseman 2023 but there was not a single thread on the forum about the race . does that mean you won't cover Norseman 2024 ? Or will you think all the people looked at the weekend race recap article because they really only wanted to know about Norseman or the USAT champs which also had no thread I think , and had no interest in the pto Milwaukee recap, while the pro Milwaukee thread had 12000 plus clicks on the forum ?

And don't get me wrong I like to read the Norseman results.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [pk] [ In reply to ]
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pk wrote:
I would love to understand better how this works

I think it's safe to say this is all more complex than page clicks.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [pk] [ In reply to ]
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I think I've said this in a couple places, but here's some of the sausage making here:

We do a fair bit of analysis on what our site traffic and forum interactions look like. I do some rolling reporting, but the big deep dive we do that dictates our broader race coverage calendar is done right around IMWC every year, where we figure out race writing budgets, travel (if any), and make those decisions off of what our readership is clicking / engaging / talking about.

Off of that analysis, we decided that we would prune back a bit. Honestly the biggest change we made was to our IRONMAN coverage -- we're only covering races that IM is broadcasting or races that we were at in person. We also pulled back on World Triathlon coverage, moving to only the Championship Series and the Test Event. Unfortunately it's meant that I have done the majority of writing on race coverage in 2023. That's a gap that I'd like to have filled for 2024.

As for Norseman 2024 -- it would depend on whether or not we have someone racing there again that would drive an interesting story.

I'll strongly consider just reporting on USAT AG Nationals in 2024 as well -- which did have its own conversation, and it's a better indicator of industry health than just looking at IM pulling back on its own race calendar.

And yes, we would *most likely* cover PTO events in 2024 based on what we've seen.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Jackets wrote:
pk wrote:
not really interested who gets contracted as i dont care to much about their season narrative.
all i can say singapore with its small field was the most boring race of the 3 to me this year i think 30 is a better number as with 20 as soon you have a dns and a couple of dnfs and a couple of atheltes with off days the field is way to thin. and in a way the singapore bike course was the best of the 3 races.


It shows how spoilt we now are as Triathlon fans to call Singapore a boring race, I think we're in a golden era of pro racing, there's little interest in 70.3 Worlds at the moment also.

These fields about 8/5 years ago would have been classed as absolutely stacked and the whole forum would have been talking about themwhen people only had Kona to look forward to every year.

Our page views beg to differ.

Less than a week out and no one had even bothered doing a thread, it's only on 50 replies now! Lionel changing his bike set up would have had more interest on here.

No doubt it being sandwiched between 2 PTO and Paris test events has watered down everyone's interest.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [jcgiraSHT] [ In reply to ]
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First, it's not clear whether there will be 16 + 16 contracted or 8 + 8 (per rrh)
Rehashing my post in the 'WT powered by PTO' thread
The athletes won't be taken straight from the PTO Rankings at (whatever date).
I'd have thought PTO would try to get country/regional spread too.
Looking through the current top 25 in the PTO Rankings, I have difficulty identifying 10 to exclude.
Next year, Iden will surely want to be in the mix, though can't see how he or KB could contract to race multiple PTO races without detriment to their Olympic ambitions/performance.
I assume neither Duffy nor Frodeno will be in the 'PTO 16'.
Interesting selection matrix: ranking, 100km capability (v 226), country and region mix, media presence, previous PTO content featuring/investment, - any others??
I deduce:
1) Any athlete outside top 3 in country is vulnerable to deselection, even if in PTO top #20.
  • Chevalier/Mignon/Chevrot/Laid low: pick two.
  • Angert/Funk pick one: same (can't see Lange interested in 100km).
  • Fight for the Brits after LCB: Lawrence, EPB, Matthews, Lee, Byram, Langridge.
2) Sanders may get in as 'top (male) Canadian'.
3) The SOF of all non PTO races will drop (because none of the top #20 will race any , making it difficult for athletes to gain 'decent' points in 'Gold' and lower races.
4) Unless Knibb is racing (not much next year given Paris), LCB will have some lonely old races as there'll be no other fish in the contracted 16. I guess some wildcards (maybe drawn from WTCS weapons) might give her company in the water and then be dropped on the (TT) bike, but those are all focused on Paris till August 2024.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
First, it's not clear whether there will be 16 + 16 contracted or 8 + 8 (per rrh)
Rehashing my post in the 'WT powered by PTO' thread
The athletes won't be taken straight from the PTO Rankings at (whatever date).
I'd have thought PTO would try to get country/regional spread too.
Looking through the current top 25 in the PTO Rankings, I have difficulty identifying 10 to exclude.
Next year, Iden will surely want to be in the mix, though can't see how he or KB could contract to race multiple PTO races without detriment to their Olympic ambitions/performance.
I assume neither Duffy nor Frodeno will be in the 'PTO 16'.
Interesting selection matrix: ranking, 100km capability (v 226), country and region mix, media presence, previous PTO content featuring/investment, - any others??
I deduce:
1) Any athlete outside top 3 in country is vulnerable to deselection, even if in PTO top #20.
  • Chevalier/Mignon/Chevrot/Laid low: pick two.
  • Angert/Funk pick one: same (can't see Lange interested in 100km).
  • Fight for the Brits after LCB: Lawrence, EPB, Matthews, Lee, Byram, Langridge.
2) Sanders may get in as 'top (male) Canadian'.
3) The SOF of all non PTO races will drop (because none of the top #20 will race any , making it difficult for athletes to gain 'decent' points in 'Gold' and lower races.
4) Unless Knibb is racing (not much next year given Paris), LCB will have some lonely old races as there'll be no other fish in the contracted 16. I guess some wildcards (maybe drawn from WTCS weapons) might give her company in the water and then be dropped on the (TT) bike, but those are all focused on Paris till August 2024.


there is one thing i really like about ironman and that is the fact they dont have silly nationality quotas.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
I think I've said this in a couple places, but here's some of the sausage making here:

We do a fair bit of analysis on what our site traffic and forum interactions look like. I do some rolling reporting, but the big deep dive we do that dictates our broader race coverage calendar is done right around IMWC every year, where we figure out race writing budgets, travel (if any), and make those decisions off of what our readership is clicking / engaging / talking about.

Off of that analysis, we decided that we would prune back a bit. Honestly the biggest change we made was to our IRONMAN coverage -- we're only covering races that IM is broadcasting or races that we were at in person. We also pulled back on World Triathlon coverage, moving to only the Championship Series and the Test Event. Unfortunately it's meant that I have done the majority of writing on race coverage in 2023. That's a gap that I'd like to have filled for 2024.

As for Norseman 2024 -- it would depend on whether or not we have someone racing there again that would drive an interesting story.

I'll strongly consider just reporting on USAT AG Nationals in 2024 as well -- which did have its own conversation, and it's a better indicator of industry health than just looking at IM pulling back on its own race calendar.

And yes, we would *most likely* cover PTO events in 2024 based on what we've seen.

i would love to read more about usat nationals as overall slowtwitch should be more focused on grassroot events
i understand you make the clicks from ironman but at the end of the day if you dont support the grassroots you risk the clicks from ironman races long term, i guess in europe we have more grassroot events and its doing the sport good.
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Re: Who should be selected for the TPO Tour 2024 and why [pk] [ In reply to ]
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So i picked guys out of the top 25 trying to mix different profiles and countries

USA
1 front pack swimmer Kanute
3 second pack swimmers : West, Von Berg, Marquardt
1 slower swimmer : Long

Europe
2 front swimmers : Laidlow, Baekeland
5 second pack swimmers : Ditlev, Heemeryck, Margirier, Funk and Lange or Bogen
1 slower swimmer Chevalier and/or Skipper

Rest of the world
2 Front pack swimmers : Neumann-Royle
1- Second pack - Weiss
1 - slower swimmer : Sanders/Wurf



substitutes BOGEN- Mc NAMEE- BARNABY- CHEVROT-MIGNON



the slower swimmer group may be the trickier as Lionel is barely in the top 25, but as previously stated for the Arena indoor race he is one of the few athletes who has established a brand. Plus, if the broadcast is good, the race is long enough has low 'boring' moments) that it needs to tell the story from the front AND from the back. are the riders coming back? Where are the runners? I think that if you only put Sam Long as the only slower swimmer, it may end up just like it did for Chevalier in Ibiza: the race is too short and too fast at the front to bridge up alone to the front

I would really to know where do people who follow the PTO races are from? Does anybody have any idea?
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