Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed?

Aug 9, 23 7:35

Post #1 of 16 (1396 views)

Heat/humidity/dew point slows my running down.

If training for an event in the fall/winter (as I am now), I've kept my pace (and zones) as if I'm in the fall/winter. For slow/long runs this doesn't seem too bad. But for intervals, there's no way I can complete the plan.

Should I adjust my pace/zones on my plan or do the number of intervals I can do and call it a day? An example of the intervals is last week my plan had me running 3x11' at 70.3 race pace with a 4' z2 pace rest. I had already decided I was going to walk the rests, which I did. I hit the first intervals (10:30/mi 63yo male), the second dropped to 11:45 and the third to 12:30 with walking in the last two. My HR during the intervals stayed right around threshold rate (151-152).

I use the Saturday app, so I'm comfortable with pre- and during activity hydration, sodium and carb intake.

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 7:39

Post #2 of 16 (1394 views)

A rule of thumb I use is that you can (should) only train one stimulus a day.

Have your pick: speed, endurance, or heat. If you try to combine more than one, that's where you start compounding fatigue. If it's hot out, keep it in zone 2.

If its hot out, I just move any intervals to another day, earlier in the day when it's cooler, or inside on the treadmill.

Last edited by: timbasile: Aug 9, 23 7:40

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 7:44

Post #3 of 16 (1377 views)

Going by HR is a solid way to deal with heat. It's imperfect, but unless you're a professional athlete it's close enough.

Is there a likelihood that you'll be racing in the heat? If so, get out there and train in the heat sometimes. Specificity and all that.

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [timbasile] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 7:45

Post #4 of 16 (1377 views)

Thanks. Unfortunately, "heat" is every day, even in the mornings. Because of the dew point, the heat index is around 100f even at 7am. The dew point was 79 this morning. I actually find running in the "heat of the day" better because the dew point drops to 70-72 and I can get some evaporation. At 79 there's no evaporation.

So, if the treadmill is not an option, what should I do?

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [mathematics] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 7:50

Post #5 of 16 (1361 views)

I didn't even think about using HR.

It sounds like slowing down, based on HR, and completing the intervals (based on planned HR) is best. Is that what I'm hearing you say?

Also, I actually like running in the heat. But I know I need to adjust something.

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 7:52

Post #6 of 16 (1357 views)

Training paces should be based on your current abilities given the conditions...not your goal race pace or what you think you might be able to do under better conditions. It's tough to accept but heat and humidity require adjustments. HR is a good guide to base those adjustments off of.

LEBoyd wrote:

Heat/humidity/dew point slows my running down.

If training for an event in the fall/winter (as I am now), I've kept my pace (and zones) as if I'm in the fall/winter. For slow/long runs this doesn't seem too bad. But for intervals, there's no way I can complete the plan.

Should I adjust my pace/zones on my plan or do the number of intervals I can do and call it a day? An example of the intervals is last week my plan had me running 3x11' at 70.3 race pace with a 4' z2 pace rest. I had already decided I was going to walk the rests, which I did. I hit the first intervals (10:30/mi 63yo male), the second dropped to 11:45 and the third to 12:30 with walking in the last two. My HR during the intervals stayed right around threshold rate (151-152).

I use the Saturday app, so I'm comfortable with pre- and during activity hydration, sodium and carb intake.

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 7:54

Post #7 of 16 (1354 views)

If going with the slower speed route; I have seen calculators/guides for pace adjustment based on temp and dew point. Couple of examples below

https://runnersconnect.net/...perature-calculator/

https://www.wickedbonkproof.com/...usting-pace-for-heat

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 8:05

Post #8 of 16 (1342 views)

LEBoyd wrote:

I didn't even think about using HR.

It sounds like slowing down, based on HR, and completing the intervals (based on planned HR) is best. Is that what I'm hearing you say?

Also, I actually like running in the heat. But I know I need to adjust something.

Yeah that's the way I do it. I'm not a fan of the heat-adjustment calculators, even with the same temp/dew point there are too many variables. Sun/shade, wind, body composition, heat tolerance.

TBH doing run intervals by HR instead of pace is a decent mode for any day regardless of temperature.

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [mathematics] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 8:31

Post #9 of 16 (1317 views)

Thanks.

I'll try to make the adjustment to Training Peaks and see how it goes.

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 8:54

Post #10 of 16 (1297 views)

LEBoyd wrote:

Thanks. Unfortunately, "heat" is every day, even in the mornings. Because of the dew point, the heat index is around 100f even at 7am. The dew point was 79 this morning. I actually find running in the "heat of the day" better because the dew point drops to 70-72 and I can get some evaporation. At 79 there's no evaporation.

So, if the treadmill is not an option, what should I do?

I live in Dallas area and am struggling with the same issue. I find that for my tempo and easy runs... i need to be out runnung well before 7 am. I find that I can grind out the intervals, but struggle to keep my easy runs easy. The heat and some hills mean that I struggle to keep my HR as low as I would like. My suggestion, get out early. Yes, the air is essentially floating water... and you will literally be drenched when you finish your run. BUT, it is easier to run in low 80's early in the am vs. 100-105 and dry midday.

I also have had to come to realization that the summer forces me to focus on bike and swim fitness, whereas I can really hammer my run fitness once the heat breaks. So, during July and August... my weekly mileage drops compared to the rest of the year.

In search of the righteous life... we all fall down

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 9:01

Post #11 of 16 (1287 views)

Adjust paces and powers to match the same perceived exertion as if it were a normal temp day. If you were racing your 70.3 in that high heat would your 70.3 goal pace still be the same or would it be slower?

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [piratetri] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 9:17

Post #12 of 16 (1277 views)

If I ever had to race in this heat, I'd only be trying to not DNF :)

I race an Oly last July 10 in Waco. I was happy to finish and not finish last. :)

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [TH3_FRB] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 10:40

Post #13 of 16 (1230 views)

TH3_FRB wrote:

Training paces should be based on your current abilities given the conditions...not your goal race pace or what you think you might be able to do under better conditions. It's tough to accept but heat and humidity require adjustments. HR is a good guide to base those adjustments off of.

LEBoyd wrote:

Heat/humidity/dew point slows my running down.

If training for an event in the fall/winter (as I am now), I've kept my pace (and zones) as if I'm in the fall/winter. For slow/long runs this doesn't seem too bad. But for intervals, there's no way I can complete the plan.

Should I adjust my pace/zones on my plan or do the number of intervals I can do and call it a day? An example of the intervals is last week my plan had me running 3x11' at 70.3 race pace with a 4' z2 pace rest. I had already decided I was going to walk the rests, which I did. I hit the first intervals (10:30/mi 63yo male), the second dropped to 11:45 and the third to 12:30 with walking in the last two. My HR during the intervals stayed right around threshold rate (151-152).

I use the Saturday app, so I'm comfortable with pre- and during activity hydration, sodium and carb intake.

This is what I would do as well.
3X11' @ 70.3 pace is likely 40-60 seconds per mile slower than threshold pace and your HR should reflect that. So if you HR is at threshold you should slow down a little bit.

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [timbasile] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 11:29

Post #14 of 16 (1185 views)

timbasile wrote:

A rule of thumb I use is that you can (should) only train one stimulus a day.

Have your pick: speed, endurance, or heat. If you try to combine more than one, that's where you start compounding fatigue. If it's hot out, keep it in zone 2.

If its hot out, I just move any intervals to another day, earlier in the day when it's cooler, or inside on the treadmill.

This is great advice.

However there are some flaws:

1) How do you train "endurance" at all when it is 110 outside?
Try as I may, I always end up with heat exhaustion issues before I get to 2.5 hours.

2) How do you train speed when it's 110 outside?
My usual tempo pace is 6:20. At 110 it's probably 8:00. That's just not the same stimulus!!
And I am still risking heat exhaustion.

A couple possible (imperfec)t solutions
1) Break up the long run
12 miles in the morning + 10 in the evening = 20 miles all at once

2) Focus on shorter intervals rather than long intervals or tempos:
Run 16 x 400s at half marathon pace with 30 second rest and water dump.
Heart rate and speed might be same as tempo.

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 13:15

Post #15 of 16 (1149 views)

LEBoyd wrote:

Heat/humidity/dew point slows my running down.

If training for an event in the fall/winter (as I am now), I've kept my pace (and zones) as if I'm in the fall/winter. For slow/long runs this doesn't seem too bad. But for intervals, there's no way I can complete the plan.

Should I adjust my pace/zones on my plan or do the number of intervals I can do and call it a day? An example of the intervals is last week my plan had me running 3x11' at 70.3 race pace with a 4' z2 pace rest. I had already decided I was going to walk the rests, which I did. I hit the first intervals (10:30/mi 63yo male), the second dropped to 11:45 and the third to 12:30 with walking in the last two. My HR during the intervals stayed right around threshold rate (151-152).

I use the Saturday app, so I'm comfortable with pre- and during activity hydration, sodium and carb intake.

Slow down so you can finish the whole workout. There are on-line calculators that will tell you how much you need to slow down to adjust for the heat. If you don't slow down enough you will have to drop out of the workout early. I have been there and had to drop out early on repeats. I have also got heat exhaustion. It is better to drop out early than to get heat exhaustion. It is better to do the workout at a slow speed than to cut it short.

Re: Running heat question: Fewer intervals or slower speed? [curtish26] [ In reply to ]

Aug 9, 23 19:13

Post #16 of 16 (1063 views)

Thank you everyone for the input. I did a 30’ TT to get new zones this afternoon. My new zones are slower, similar to what people have suggested for the reduction in pace. We have at least another two weeks of 100+f temps, so I should be able to complete the works outs. When temps drop, I’ll do another TT to adjust the paces again.

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

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