Why now do we need solid facts now? this site is 99 % hyperbole about wheels , socks , sugars and data we have never seen??

The original post was is the ventum one a disadvantage my comment is basically asking is the rider actually the disadvantage.

We have seen many riders switch bikes and have the same results now we see a bit more that the rider maybe can’t ride as well as we thought , can run well but maybe not ride like Magnus or laidlow.

If you watch itu you see the person on the back of a group barely pedalling a significant portion of the time and in this case he got dropped ? So maybe we have more evidence the rider is the one losing time not the bike , or maybe that the ventum actually saved him time to the long course bikers vs a road bike setup in draft legal did.

I think Jason will be on a different bike next year and although we will not get to see his power as he may improve it would be good to see any changes and what it concludes.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

He might have been toast by the swim and 1st transition paces, and the DL bike leg resembles more a criterium, with sudden u turns and surges (rather than PTO typical time trial style riding), to which he might not be accustomed

I completely agree with that but also have the even seen a weak cyclist get drop from an itu bike pack once it the pack they never fall out. A few may break out of the pack but rarely do you see someone fall out even Jorgensen in Rio didn’t get dropped out. Toth in Tokyo was on the back onf the front pack smiling and waving to the camera not even peddling most the time.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Just to make sure I am following. You are making a case the Ventum tri bike may not be slower because West gets dropped by ITU guys on a road bike but not by middle distance guys on a tri bike ? I am seriously confused, which isnt hard to do

+1 lol. I've read and re-read his comments over and over, and I am not clear on the point they are trying to make!

I am not making an assumptions because I have no data and no context but.

In pto events 2021 Jason lost 10 minutes and 16 min to Kristen in 70.3 worlds 2022.

In 2023 he has been behind Kristen 3.5 , 4 min with the mechanical stop and 2.5 in pto races. On the ventum TT.

Here in draft legal 20 km race he got dropped by riders not as strong as Kristen so ….

Is the ventum one actually saving him time , if we see his power file we may know?

If he is a poor at draft legal like some here have said , why in 2016 he biked in the Same times as Kristen in itu races.

Maybe it’s just not the bikes ? Like the topic of the thread. The point is it’s not the “fucking bikes” it’s the fit to the rider and the riders power output.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

So you're saying all bikes are equal ?

It could he that he's is saying that the ventum road bike is so much slower, since the rider got dropped on a ventum when he could stay with another bike a few year ago , in the main pack ...





Or that the bike frame is only a tiny part of performance of an athelte ,which is obviously correct but the way he argues that is pathetic.

Wasn’t that the whole point of your work with Lionel ?

Comparing him to books on the same frame , yet him losing 30 watts ?

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

No, that was not the whole point on my work with Lionel. My work with him was to optimize him on the bike he had. Not select a new bike, not to see if he had a competitive advantage or disadvantage (topic of this thread).

If he wants to know if another bike is faster, we could that, but that is not what he asked for.

The topic of this thread is whether the Ventum bike is slower than the top end bikes of other manufacturers. If so, that would be a competitive disadvantage to an athlete.

So far, we have one data set, relatively well collected that says yes it is slower than the top end bike. That and a bunch of anecdotal data.

If it is a disadvantage, there are things that can lessen the impact. But that is not the topic of this thread either.

I am not sure what "comparing him to books on the same frame" means.

auto correct "nooka".

you just showed a rider can lose 30 watts based off position alone, NO.

The TOPIC is Jason wests Bike a disadvantage and therefore why he isn't wining the PTO. After Rome it's pretty easy to say " NO" it's his bike power.

notice this is about Jason west ( but history shows he has always been a weaker biker) but no one made a thread is Lionel riding a canyon the reason Jackson and his Ventum have out biked him on less watts twice in September.

NO because like you proved he lost watts on set up not the bike frame. And we all have known this for some time.

Anyways lets see what Jason does this next weekend and what Lionel does next and then make more presumptions with no proper data collection.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Time to renew this thread after T100?

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Kiwami Racing Team

Ha! Yes! I haven’t seen much on Jason West’s performance but it was clearly his Ventum slowing him down…

For a change, good swim.....then.....

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Kiwami Racing Team

Pretty late to this whole thread as I'm not generally following Slowtwitch these days.

Years ago, during the whole Kiley Austin-Young branded Aero Testing Shootout, I did a considerable amount of work on my own (real world, not in a wind tunnel).

At that time, I had a Felt IA1, Cervelo P5, Specialized Shiv, TriRig Omni, Pearson (Very custom, no real name).

For me, the P5 and TriRig were interchangeably fast on most courses on most days. I prefer the climbing and descending feel of the P5, so I use it on courses that are more technical.

Some time later, after I had sold the Felt and Specialized, I picked up a Ventum super cheap on ebay. Like $1000 or something...I couldn't resist.

What I can tell you about that bike is that it is probably fast enough in it's current incarnation, and that the old version can be "fixed" by throwing the stock fork off a bridge.

The changes made to the new version include a much wider fork with nicely optimized airfoils, and improved trailing edge at the fork crown that blends into the frame, a mono-post for the aerobar adjustment, and an improved leading edge on the actual head tube. The original fork/headtube cover was complete trash.

I ran the Ventum with an extra fork from my TriRig, a TriRig brake, and one of their nose cones. In that configuration, it was basically back in the fight.

Good stuff thanks for posting!