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Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike.
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Just for fun, as I am doing a sprint Tri next week, I did a training ride in running shoes, on a course I have been using that gives me a chance to ride at speed. The course is strictly an out and back 9k so anything that slows me down one way, gives it back the other. I live downtown and finding a place to ride fast (ish) is tricky. It's not always smooth and not always straight (typical of most things downtown). I have been testing bits and pieces of equipment to see what was fastest with some new gear based on a flat course (they say). Little tweaks really, gets me training and keeps me amused.

I wondered if the T2 time savings were outweighed by the speed loss from flat pedals (no clips, just flats). I'm always slow in transition, and as a shit runner I often get run down, sometimes lapped or unlapped, so a minute would be useful on a short (7k) run course. I will admit that on a hill on the way home I forgot they were flats and tried to pull, nearly came off.

I was about 45 seconds faster than usual.......must have been the wind.

Anyone tried the same thing and with what results?
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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I did it in Sprint Tri earlier this year. Run 3.4 miles, bike 10, run a couple of hundred yards to the pool for a 150 meter swim. The bike portion is flat so I thought that I would try cycling in my running shoes and I felt like running to the pool would be faster with shoes on.
I practiced riding my bike in my running shoes a couple of times and it worked fine.
It rained the morning of the race so my feet slipped off the pedals numerous times. If not for that I would say that it would have probably saved me a little time.
I took off the shoes just before entering the pool area.
Luckily, I did end up winning my age division by about one foot as I passed the guy in first place running up the ramp exiting the pool to the finish line.
If the ride is short and flat and there is no rain I think that you would save some time in your race by cycling in your running shoes. Please let us know how it works out for you.
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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There is a thread here somewhere about Super League and why athletes who race it insist on clipless pedals.

Someone there suggested (I think) that in the early days, you could also see toe clipped pedals in Super League.

So, might screw-on toe clips (for running shoes) be a solution here?

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Last edited by: kajet: Jul 8, 23 0:22
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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There’s a guy in my area who wins local races (and is an especially good runner) who uses his Nike super shoes on the bike, flat pedals, for sprint races.

To me it especially makes sense in a R/B/R duathlon where you cut 2 transitions.

I tried it once a few years back at a du. It was fine and did save a few seconds in transition, but I prefer the feeling of my bike shoes. Also, it threw my bike fit off a bit.

Might as well give it a go and tell us what you think!

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:
Just for fun, as I am doing a sprint Tri next week, I did a training ride in running shoes, on a course I have been using that gives me a chance to ride at speed. The course is strictly an out and back 9k so anything that slows me down one way, gives it back the other. I live downtown and finding a place to ride fast (ish) is tricky. It's not always smooth and not always straight (typical of most things downtown). I have been testing bits and pieces of equipment to see what was fastest with some new gear based on a flat course (they say). Little tweaks really, gets me training and keeps me amused.

I wondered if the T2 time savings were outweighed by the speed loss from flat pedals (no clips, just flats). I'm always slow in transition, and as a shit runner I often get run down, sometimes lapped or unlapped, so a minute would be useful on a short (7k) run course. I will admit that on a hill on the way home I forgot they were flats and tried to pull, nearly came off.

I was about 45 seconds faster than usual.......must have been the wind.

Anyone tried the same thing and with what results?

Reminds of a chat I had with some random 6:00-6:30 70.3 lady last weekend. She said, "I am not a sprinter, I don't do sprints" Probably the most misunderstood distance in triathlon. It is a 60-70 min effort for any competent AG triathlete. So an aerobic race. I was arguing that she could use a sprint tri to gauge her IM training. i.e. if you are 9 hour guy, your sprint is around 1 hours, 9:30-9:45...you are in the 1:05 range. bottom line, a sprint tri..is not really a sprint like swimming, cycling or running,

You will be on the bike for ~14-16 minutes (if I understand it is only 9 km) assuming you are a reasonably fit cyclist. So you will lose a ton of time not using clipless. Learn how to leave your shoes clipped and get your feet while riding up to speed.
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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You will be on the bike for ~14-16 minutes (if I understand it is only 9 km) assuming you are a reasonably fit cyclist. So you will lose a ton of time not using clipless. Learn how to leave your shoes clipped and get your feet while riding up to speed.




The course I ride on is 9K, the race is 25k (proper sprint). And if I could get anywhere near a sprint time of 1 hour I would be thrilled and high fiving everyone in sight. And yes, like running a 5k, sprints are a different animal. As for clipped or not in T1 that's a whole different post and subject. Cheers.
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [kajet] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, toe clips would have been good, but I was being lazy (it's genetic).
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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If you could save a minute in transition by not swapping shoes then I would recommend a little more transition practice.

I regularly have the fastest (or within a couple of seconds) transitions of any race I am in and it is all about simplifying the process and practice.
When you run in to transition from the first run, all you should be doing is grabbing your helmet, then your bike and go! You can either flying mount or just mount normally with your foot on top of your shoe. Get up to speed, pull on one shoe, get back up to speed, pull on the other shoe. Off you go.

Coming in you pull out your feet, pedal with your feet off the to of the shoe and then dismount and run back in. Rack your bike, ditch your helmet, pull on your shoes.

Now, there are some exceptions to this. If the T1 depart is complicated or up a hill it may be worth it to put your cycling shoes on first, but those have been rare, for me and I just scout it out beforehand.

If your shoes are taking a while, then get the elastic laces and make sure you can pull them on fast. Shoes don't have to be tight to get the job done.

One anecdotal story. I did a short F1 style duathlon once (four transitions instead of two) and the guy who finished just behind me had the platform pedals (that ran the length of the shoes) with straps and a back support. He made up a few seconds on me in every transition, but when the first rise came, I powered past him.
No straps or cycling shoes means you have to be a bit of a masher. That may suit some more than others. I'm a spinner, so I never considered it. I would guess it would take me no more than a mile or so to make up the difference between using a cycling shoe and using my running shoes with platforms.
If you decide to try it, make sure all your training on the bike mimics the race because riding in running shoes is not at all like cycling shoes.
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Are sprint distances standardized where you live? I rarely see ones that are the total same distance (except for the 5k run which is standard)
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the advice, I must admit in distances from sprint to Kona I am always a bit slow (comparatively) in transition.

The actual point of the post was.....my speed and time on the flat pedals was just about the same as when I wear proper cycling shoes, I was wondering if any others had similar experiences.


There have been several studies done to show that in fact there is no difference between flats and clips when tested in Lab conditions. This was my little experiment.
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Are sprint distances standardized where you live? I rarely see ones that are the total same distance (except for the 5k run which is standard)


Yeah, most of them are 750 m, 20 km bike, 5 k run. We have a few that change it up a bit due to logistics. 500 m swim and 25 km bike, 5 km run. or longer sprint 750, 30, 7

To the OP: I have heard about those studies, but I just don't see it in real life. As someone else mentioned, the superleague guys always clip in.
Last edited by: Engner66: Jul 8, 23 15:15
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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I won the same local sprint tri, 3 years in a row. The first year, I used old fashioned cages, straps, and running shoes. The following two years I changed to clip-less shoes and pedals, and clipped in. The difference was so negligible, I can’t even remember what it was, but I averaged over 22 mph in either configuration. I currently have two-in-one (flats on one side and spd on the other) pedals on my road bike, and do most of my casual riding in running shoes. At my old man, age group level, I see very little difference, and if I do any more sprint or oly tris, it will be in running shoes.

Athlinks / Strava
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [Dean T] [ In reply to ]
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I'm leaning towards the running shoes, for the sprint, just because it might be a laugh to try. And I know it's a flat course.

My next Oly has only one hill, but it's 5k long and 70kph is likely on the way back, I will feel a little more connected with proper shoes.

Glad to see that others have had a similar experience as far as speed goes (I'm in the same ballpark speedwise)
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:
The actual point of the post was.....my speed and time on the flat pedals was just about the same as with clips.


There have been several studies done to show that in fact there is no difference between flats and clips when tested in Lab conditions. This was my little experiment.
I can see how a lab might arrive at those results. You could focus on only pedaling and keep your feet right where they need to be. There were probably no gear changes and a consistent rpm. There were no bumps to jar you. None of those conditions occur in an actual out of doors ride.
Studies also show that you don't actually contribute any upward pull/energy when you are pedaling, but you do unweight the upgoing foot enough to make it easier to push down. Don't ask me where I read that study; it has been years since I read it. That was the genesis of my 'masher' point.
One of the easiest ways to pick out an experienced cyclist is to take a glance at their rpm. Newbies or inexperienced riders tend to mash. On the end of the spectrum, pro cyclists spin at insane rpms when they are generating big power.
For you, though, it may be a bit of a wash at the shorter distances.
I paid way too much for my tri shoes to leave them home. :)
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Engner66 wrote:
Reminds of a chat I had with some random 6:00-6:30 70.3 lady last weekend. She said, "I am not a sprinter, I don't do sprints" Probably the most misunderstood distance in triathlon. It is a 60-70 min effort for any competent AG triathlete. So an aerobic race. I was arguing that she could use a sprint tri to gauge her IM training. i.e. if you are 9 hour guy, your sprint is around 1 hours, 9:30-9:45...you are in the 1:05 range. bottom line, a sprint tri..is not really a sprint like swimming, cycling or running,

Basically - She said: I'm slow, not in shape, and don't like to push myself so I tell every-one I only do long course as it impresses them as they don't understand the actual pace I'm doing but think 70.3 miles is "way to hard"

A win at a sprint is HARD. Finishing a 70.3 is a fun morning away from your kids but sounds a whole lot more impressive.
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Re: Sprint Tri with running shoes on the bike. [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:
I'm leaning towards the running shoes, for the sprint, just because it might be a laugh to try. And I know it's a flat course.

My next Oly has only one hill, but it's 5k long and 70kph is likely on the way back, I will feel a little more connected with proper shoes.

Glad to see that others have had a similar experience as far as speed goes (I'm in the same ballpark speedwise)

yep - regardless of the actual improvements in economy/power (which are definitely debated), i appreciated that my clipless pedals give me more control. i did a tri this morning that had some speed bumps on the way in/out of transition, and being able to bunny-hop them was nice!

generally i'm good at transitions. but for a very short race with multiple transitions, and/or one with a very straightforward bike course and tight competition, i might opt for running shoes too.

____________________________________
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http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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