All depends on the athlete. But a two beat kick can work well.

I've seen successful athletes have tempos ranging from 1.1 to 1.9, so a very wide range.

Tim

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I think for us “fish” it’s just going to be based on what we grew up doing. I’ve always naturally done either a 2 beat or 4 beat kick. I was a flyer/IMmer so not a sprinter. I was always last on my team on kick sets. 😁 Those that were sprinters probably naturally do a six beat kick.

In 2004 I did IM Wisconsin swim in exactly an hour and zero seconds. When I use a wetsuit it makes my legs float like I’m pulling so I really only kick for balance with a stronger kick when I sight.

My only focus in any tri swim (or any length) is long strokes and don’t waste energy.

2 beat kick is use by a lot of distance swimmers and triathelte so you could swim 50min ironman on this. But it s individual. in triathlon kicking is there to support your stroke, balance but not so much for propulsion.


stroke rate, up to a point, the higher, the better. If you are good at drafting, high stroke rate will be very profitable for you.

to give you a very generalized view of stroke rate in my group

1h10 ironman swim or slower 66-68spm
1:05 ironman swimmers 68-72spm
1h 73-75spm
50min-55min 80+ spm

not everyone fall into those numbers tho....but a trend can be seen....

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I hope this doesn’t sound dismissive, but I swam an hour IM without knowing how many beats my kick was or what my stroke rate was.

For sure, swimming is absolutely a technique sport way more so than running or cycling. But at the end of the day, sub 1hr is not that fast in pure swimming terms and there’s no substitute for hard yards. Do a clinic or two to check on catch mechanics and body position, then work work work.

Okay fair call no one expects you to know your stroke rate but the fact you don’t know how your kick style is funny to me hehehe and you still crush it by tri standards

I like a 4 beat. See around 130-145 from Kieren Perkins in this video from Atlanta
It’s hard to hold a stroke rate this high but you get the idea

https://m.youtube.com/...ygUMUGVya2lucyAxNTAw

Or at the 3 minute mark in this https://m.youtube.com/...ygUMSGFja2V0dCAxNTAw

Perkins and Hackett two of the best ever how much they lowered the record of their time

Once learnt a 4 beat doesn’t take much more energy than a 2 and gives you more speed options

Good luck op

I know, and that’s kinda my point. I have been exposed to enough swim talk to be able to figure it out *now*, but back when I started tri I just did a bunch of swimming and didn’t even know there was terminology for kick “beat”. I just did what felt right and that got me there.

Haha yes.

I don’t know what my stroke rate is either though - I’ve never used a form goggles, no one has ever taken my rating and I always lose count when I am trying hard so I don’t know how many strokes I do a lap. But I do know what kick I do

+1. After my first IM and realising how my swim kind of tanked my bike and run in terms of missing any group, ive been a bit more focused on swimming, moved from no proper pattern 6 beat mess to a consistent 4 beat and it's a game changer (for me) as it balances the benefits of hiding adult swimmer rotation / body position flaws like 6 beat with efficiency and energy savings of 2 beat; easier also to handle waves tempo changes and sighting especially when no Wetsuit. Legs feel way fresher.

I swim with someone who did total immersion 2 beat class, and from what I can see fixed some rotation issues and added a slow 2 beat kick but without a good catch pull it's still slow and worse for tempo changes and rougher water I suspect. So not sure unless u have strong catch and good technique.

Another guy who is a much better technical swimmer swims 2 beat he smokes me in the pool but I can swim same open water than him now in right less perfect conditions (for me not for him), in smooth water between sighting he'd do well 2 beat then maybe needs to change to something else around bouys, waves, congestion, sighting etc. I'm no fish though, as an adult onset swimmer basic 4 beat and at least 12-14km a week 5 days a week swims is what is needed so my lousy technique can be covered by solid endurance enough to then have mental focus to think about what I am doing rather than drowning. Training volume and not huge technique flaws can cover up a lot of mistakes.

My fastest IM swims were 1:00 and 1:03 at IM Florida and 1:08 at IM Couer D'Alene. All three were wetsuit swims and I didn't kick at all and I have no idea what my spm is. When I know the race is certain to be a wetsuit swim I do all my long sets (anything over 400 yds) with a pull buoy. I also focus a lot on developing a strong pull by using paddles as I personally believe open water triathlon swimming requires it.

This may not work for everyone but it works for me.

This is me. Kick sets were the bane of my existence and I would usually get lapped pretty quickly. I would guess that I have a sort of one beat kick, but as I grew up swimming I don't really think about it. If anything I only kick with my right and only breath on my left.

Asking this is bit like asking how long is a piece of string.

If you currently swim a 100m in 60 strokes (1 arm 1 stroke) in 2 minutes that's 30 strokes a minute and a 1:16 IM swim. If it take 90 strokes for the same 2 minute 100m ...... you have a lousy stroke. There is no standard because height, strength, gender, stroke efficiency and kick make a difference.

A 1 hour swim merely changes the stroke rate, or the stroke efficiency or whether the swimmer is wearing a wetsuit. All it requires is a 100m average time of 1:34.7.

As for the kick, in a video of the last WR the winner (mens) had a six beat kick, the 2nd and 3rd place had 2 beat kicks, but then Katy Ledecky beat the women's SC record by 10 seconds and she is a two beat kicker, with a 64 strokes per minute rate, all sub 60 second 100s. In my experience, a good 2 beat kick is harder to master than 4 or 6 beat kicks. But then I never tried before this year.

In a wetsuit, unless you can already kick sub 50 second 50's, almost any kick is a complete and utter waste of energy, it's only purpose is to help position the body for a proper pull. But half the people on here will disagree....and they will be wrong :0)

In a video of a 10K race on YouTube I watched, the leader was swimming at 60 strokes a minute with perhaps a 4 beat kick where his complete foot was visible above the water and right beside him maybe half a metre back the swimmer was at 75 strokes and who cares how many beats in his kick.

So in answer to your question, there is no right answer.

As others have mentioned, a 60 min IM swim is only around 1:34/100 m pace. So completely doable on 2-beat for most swimmers.

I know I don't really kick and I have no clue what my SPM is. For reference, I am a sub 1 hour swimmer and swam NCAA D1. I was also 1650 freestyler, so I've always really been a two beat kick swimmer. I am actually slower in a wetsuit because it slows my stroke rate down, so all my fastest ironman swims have been in a swim skin lol!