I tried to drink as much gatorade as possible but this didnt really help. any ideas?

If you're a heavy sweater with what seems to be high salt loss in that sweat, Gatorade won't do near enough for you to replace the electrolytes. Nuun works well for me, I can add it to anything and it won't add any calories but will add measurable amounts of electrolytes....but any way you can get extra sodium and other elements into your system should be the answer for you.

Thanks mike., seems like every race is a learning process, but its a fun way to learn eh? I drank nuun on the last race and had a great race but this time I was living off the course and it beat me pretty bad. is there a place out there where you can get your sweat rates measured?

Well I do not think I can help you much, but as consolation I just got off of the phone with a friend that went 11:45 and his stomach shut down at mile 70 on the bike. He was a salt lick on the bike as well which is not normal for him. He went 1:05, 5:38, 4:45 or something close to that and he said the sun was just intense, and he is from Southern California.

He thinks he needed more salt tabs earlier on the bike along with more electrolyte drink early, he got into the point of no return and just could not get anything down. He said he was dry heaving on the bike. I know, not much help, but maybe you feel a little better knowing you were not alone.

no ideas for you, just want to say congrats on finishing :)

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Thanks for the help, souds like your buddy had a hard time too. It was the strangest thing to get off the bike, get through transition and down the road about a 1 - 200 mtrs thinking "hey why are there people walking, this is goning to be epic" to 100 mtrs later, "oh man this sucks and Its going to tale 2 hours for each loop! but every finishing time is a finish so got to be stoked with that. more hammer salt tablets for the hot weather next time though I think!

  I had a very similar scenario. Was looking to go 1:10 in the swim,but had a rough time sighting and finished in 1:23. Got on the bike and I felt great! I was definitely eating enough,and I thought I was taking in enough electrolytes,but I was wrong. I hit mile 90 and I was a mess.My average pace dropped to about 15 mph,and I ended up finishing the bike in 5:51. I felt so weak and out of it,that I really considered quitting. I walked through the first couple of aid stations,and ate lots of pretzels/gatorade/and water. Started feeling a little better,but not much. I managed to slog through the run finishing the race in a disapointing 12:55. I think I would have been fine if I had taken some salt tablets earlier in the bike,but I guess you live and learn. Glad to here you finished.

So could more salt tabs be the key to a stomach shutting down on a hot day? I have heard stories of people taking 15-20 per hour. When is it too much?

EM ... i posted this on a different thread a minut ago and maybe it will help you .. (first though, remeber in a dry place like AZ i would expect salt to cake up/dry as your skin dries so fast ... likely lots of others folks looking the same way)

Here is what i posted:

Sodium is not the answer for everybody (though it helps many people)

One thing athletes have to be honest about are their efforts/pacing during the swim & bike ... it's a common theme that people's stomachs "shut down" on the bike (or run) even though they were using the same product as training. I'm finding this common theme associated w/ athletes swimming/riding a little harder than what may be ideal for pacing and nutritional absorption. An ugly combination is swimming/riding harder then what might be optimal as two things can happen here ... caloric needs go up because of increased effort AND calories are possibly not being absorbed as readily because the effort is greater than what has been trained. Need up + absorption down = DEADLY

Option #2 may be racing in the heat when not completely trained for it ... in this case pace/effort must be adjusted down to deal accordingly, producing less bodily stress and allowing the system to take/absorb more fluids. Remember drinking too much fluid (or too much fluid for a given effort level) can shut the system down too.

Hope that helps give some more light and best wishes sorting through this.

BTW ... in my early days i had this problem .. i sorted it with simple nutrition & smart pacing

---

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Catmandu ... How many calories & oz of fluid were you taking an hour? Sounds you ran out of gas. As i said in the prviosu post ... "salt tablets" aren't the naswer for everybody. If you were short on sodium one would normally see bloating / cramping / nausea before the low calorie feeling or "bonk"

Best wishes ...

---

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Hey there Dave, Thanks for more information, its always good to read and try to work around the problems to get better. Last year at vineman when I met you I had a great race without any problems so to go to arizona and hit the wall on the run was interesting. Its all about the learning though, vineman was more strenuous on the bike but it also broke the bike up for the pacing with hills etc, which suited me great. Maybe I did go out to fast on the bike but in the swim there were not much choices, it was either swim or be kicked and punched and run over by 1800+ people behind me :)
Its a great learning curve to go from a good to a bad race and see the differences. Thanks again for the advice,

My pleasure ... make comparisons with the races as far as fitness/pacing/nutrition/weather/execution etc. ... two very different courses and conditions (well at least in the morning ... we get dry and hot here in the p.m.)

Best to you!

---

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

<Sounds you ran out of gas?>

This is what I ate before,and during the race up until mile 90

About 3 hours before the start I had a bagel with peanut butter(about 350 calories),and 6 crackers with cheese(190 calories)and about 16 ounces of apple juice.

2 hours before the start I had a power bar(230 Calories),and a pack of fig newtons(?) and about 20 ounces of water

Right befor the start I had 2 gu's and about 32 oz's of water.

About 10 minutes into the ride I started on Gatorade. Up until mile 90 I had 3 powerbars,7 gu's,4 bottles of gatorade(the ones they were handing out on the course)and 4 bottles of water.

Not long after that I started to feel lightheaded and had some cramping in my side.

During the ride my AV.HR.. was at about 70 %,but I did push it a little harder at some points.

Do you think that I needed to eat more?

This is what I have eaten before any of my other Ironmans and I havent have any problems.

Man ... sounds like it was enough calories assuming sensible pacing ... i'm going to estimate you had about 1800 calories over 4.5 hours? Seems like plenty of calories (pre-race included) Do you think you were absorbing calories?

Bloated at all? (if so that would make sense ... that is alot of fluid to consume in about 4:30 ... about 45oz per hour) ... you may not have been absorbing the calories in your belly.

Were the calories evenly spaced, say 100 calories every 15min?

Light headed can be blood sugar spike and drop ... so could be a reaction to the type of calories (product) and the timing of consumption. Or if you were bloated and not absorbing calories.

Hope my thinking out load helps ;) Those are some of the very common issues i see.

My Best ..

---

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Hey Trifaster

Thanks for the advice

<Were the calories evenly spaced, say 100 calories every 15min? >

I was drinking gatorade/water pretty often. The solid food,was spaced out a bit.I would have a powerbar,wait about 30 to 45 minutes(approximately) and than have,a few gu's wait another 30-45 minutes.I did stop eating the solid foods at about mile 70-75 because I felt a bit full,and just continued with the gatorade/water.

<Bloated at all? (if so that would make sense ... that is alot of fluid to consume in about 4:30 ... about 45oz per hour) ... you may not have been absorbing the calories in your belly. >

Yes I did feel a little bloated.Maybe I wasnt absorbing the calories.