I've been to beaches in Europe and elsewhere. I was on the beach in Mexico last week (ahh...). Of course, there are cultural differences on nudity and on peoples' comfort with body image. I thought the discussion about women-only tri's was related to tri's in the U.S. where there are all sorts of hang ups about body image. If you're saying that few heavy women, for example, feel self concious about running in a swimsuit you're just out of it. If you're saying that they do feel self conscious in that situation around men but they shouldn't feel self-conscious, I might agree with you. But, when you make comments that basically suggest that people should only show up when they are properly ripped, you're perpetuating the problem. You're proving that some women are correct to feel that they will be denigrated because they don't meet certain standards of fitness or sexual attractiveness.

Reality bites.

I think guys like the IDEA of hot tri girls in spandex, but except for a very lucky chosen few, most of us look a lot better in faded jeans and tanks at the burger joint AFTER the race.

Snot and sweat and various other sticky, grimy stuff ain't all that sexy. ;-)

G

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It's a little like wrestling a gorilla.........you don't stop when you're tired.........you stop when the gorilla is tired.

I think that this is a great idea. So often the top women get 'lost' in the guys. Giving the lead woman a chance to 'break the tape' for once is a wonderful idea.

:-)

One of the very coolest and famous races is the annual Dipsea run here in Northern CA. Run through the Redwoods over the mountain. What is cool is that it's a handicap race. The 80-year-old women are started first; the 30-year-old men are started last.

It is the coolest thing in the world to stand near the finish line and see who crashes out of the bushes first. One year it might be a 72-year-old man; another year, maybe a 9-year-old girl.

The top 35 all get black t-shirts. If you're the top 2 or so in your age group you will probably finish in the top 35.

Way inspiring to watch. That 9-year-old girl will be a runner for the rest of her life.

Probably completely impractical for triathlons, owing to the "crowding factor" at the end, but a fun idea anyway.

That's cool. A great idea. It gets my vote.

Quit thinking Hillary Clinton and Al Sharpton represent anything more than a small minority of black people...

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Please broaden your comments, so I can understand what you mean.

Also let's not villify individuals but rather talk about policy.

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</*I'm not slow, I'm a better than average Clydesdale*\>

If you're saying that they do feel self conscious in that situation around men but they shouldn't feel self-conscious, I might agree with you. But, when you make comments that basically suggest that people should only show up when they are properly ripped, you're perpetuating the problem. You're proving that some women are correct to feel that they will be denigrated because they don't meet certain standards of fitness or sexual attractiveness.
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Ike,

I think you did not read my post properly,I did not say anything about being ripped or in great physical shape.All I said was feeling comfortable in your own skin whatever that might be.

Again if there are woman who are not comfortable around men in their tri racing attire(swimsuit or such)they should not be competing in triathlons there are plenty of other sports.People come in all shape and sizes and there is nothing wrong about that and there is no reason to be self concious about your nudity.

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I see obsessed people.

What I mean is that every person I know that has "made it" in life would take it as an insult if a whole group of people were to presume that the only reason they were able to do anything in life is with hand outs and special treatment....liberals usually only make themselves feel good.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Allow me to preface this with a short disclaimer. I'm familiar with your posts, you strike me as a good guy and I have nothing against you, so don't come after me with a blood oath. ;)

However, once again you speak in generalizations. Neither of us speaks for everyone.

To speak directly to your text, I don't believe in unlimited hand-outs. I am quite familiar with the rhetoric of both the conservatives and the liberals and often the only person is serves is themselves. The entire system is rigged to keep only 2 players in the game and the US citizens are the ones who lose. I believe in programs that allow people to better themselves and become productive members of society through education, job training, whatever. People MUST play a role in shaping their own lives but their must be plausible avenues for them to succeed.

I greatly respect the writings of Ayn Rand and I believe my destiny is my own but there are great inequities in our society and a lot of injustice.

To me, the heart of the matter is this. A "Conservative" sees a homeless person and assumes that person is lazy or did something bad to deserve being homeless.

A "liberal" sees a homeless person and thinks that perhaps "it could happen to me" and that these people deserve avenues back to society to where they can become productive citizens again.

It's easy to imagine success when you have a family supporting you, going to your races/plays/spelling bees/whatever, and you went to a good school that was properly maintained and nobody ever got shot. You went to a good college and now you have a good job. You stayed "on the path" and you were probably born onto "the path".

If you grew up in a neighborhood where the schools were a mess, there weren't enough text books, you had 35 kids in your class, your teacher was overworked and underpaid, your parents were never home because they were working all the time, your family doesn't have health care......your chances for being a successful productive citizen are quite a bit less.

I believe that our entire society benefits from having everyone well educated and healthy.

You disagree?

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</*I'm not slow, I'm a better than average Clydesdale*\>

At the risk of getting this thread sent to LR....

"White people on the other hand, hold pretty much all the cards in this country. Above 90% of fortune 500 companies are white males (I'm guessing at this statistic but I bet it holds out)."

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by Above 90% of fortune 500 compaines are white males but....

From this article http://www.infoplease.com/spot/womenceo1.html

"A recent survey revealed that 10% of the Fortune 500 companies have women holding at least one-quarter of their corporate officer positions."

This file http://www.catalystwomen.org/files/fact/Snapshot%202004.pdf places 15.7% of the officers for fortune 500 companies as women.

This article http://georgecurry.com/columns/index1.shtml?id=1108966625
States "There are 5,572 total board seats for Fortune 500 companies. Of those, 449 or 8.1 per cent are held by African-Americans." roughly equal to the 12.3 percent of population that the black population represents.

Adding the 15.7 with the 8.1 and 23.8% of all board members of fortune 500 companies are held by either women or blacks. Add in Asian and hispanic and I suspect that roughly 65-70% of board positions are held by white males, hardly "all the cards"

I guess what I'm saying is that I believe that in most cases the level of "inequality" and lack of diversity is overstated. Opportunities exist in this country for everyone reguardless of race, sex or religion.

~Matt

You said "triathlon is all about looks baby ... hit the weight room and hit it often." I don't think I was very wide of the mark in characterizing that as a reference to being "ripped."

That aside, we agree that people should not be so self conscious about their looks but it's a fact that many are that way. So, if some form of the sport (such as a women-only event) makes them feel comfortable enough to compete, isn't that a good thing? It might lead them to many years in the sport -- perhaps getting into better shape and perhaps, with time, becoming more comfortable with their bodies.

As a loose analogy, where I live there are no Cat 5 bike races. They all start with Cat 4. I won't race Cat 4 -- I'd get dropped quickly and get lapped. So, I do other sports. If they had a Cat 5, I might give it a try and with time perhaps even move up to Cat 4. Maybe the organizers don't want me or my money. I don't know. But, it does seem bad for the sport to set it up in a way that raises the barriers to entry.

Disagree - yes, I got your ace card. I lived for years in foster homes, was homeless and had to work hard to get when I am today - if I can do it, anyone can - if they only apply themselves. If someone is not willing to work for it...they live with out. No one will ever say to me that I got where I am thanks to a social program...I deserve, and many "minority" people out there who are in a position of comfort in their lives should not think that people will presume that they are the "Token Nigger" for some liberal programs to put on a platform and claim a social success.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Hey guys, turn on your critical thinking here: women's only triathlons/events are generally pretty popular. WHY do you think that is?

...because men aren't going to be in the race.

Don't take it personally but women don't always want to put on a show for men. Sometimes, we like to do things that we enjoy without having to consider what men are going to think about it. That doesn't mean we aren't comfortable with our bodies.

If I do a women's only event, I know it's going to be fun. I'll probably be going with girlfriends and even though I plan to be competitive, I'll be cheering on other women while I race. Despite the rumors, women do like each other and feel more comfortable with themselves when men AREN'T watching. We don't hate you, we just don't always want to be around you and no we're not being lesbos while you're not looking.

I host women's only get togethers for our local triathlon club and always have good attendance. When I offer co-ed parties, way less women show up. Why? Because they don't want to be bothered to fix themselves up or they feel like they have to bring a date etc. If it's ladies only, you can come by yourself and have a good time without a worry.

Honestly guys, girls do just want to have fun and sometimes that means getting the hell away from you!

Come on trail bait...you know why men go to watch them races? So we can check out the women...and laugh at some as well...we will say "wow, at least she is out here"...but in reality, we are mean. Married men dont go to support their wives as they claim...it is to check out the all female review. :-)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Whoa. You guys need to take the politics to the lavendar room.

I accept all-women races. Though, I imagine they make the RD's job harder; having to run a two day race instead of a big race all on one day. And I also think it'd be nice to be able to have one big race where there is more of a triathlon gathering, instead of several smaller races. But, the women like to have their thing all by themselves without us men somehow stealing their limelight, or infringing on their private moments, or whatever. I put up with it the same way I put up with the quirks all the women in my life have. Not that they are any worse for them, but they are simply aspects of life to be accepted.

If it's better for the triathlon community, and gets more people into sport, then great. Honestly, I'm just bitter about it because I prefer to race on Saturday, and most of the Saturday races in my area are womens races, and most of the coed races are on Sundays.

Yep - sorry, got a little off topic.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?