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Speed During Long Run???
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I am coming off a an Ironman and 2 seasons of long distance triathlon and marathon training. I have kept a solid running base and this season I am focusing on 1 or 2 Half-IMs and some Olympics and a few Sprint tris and road races. My long runs will obviously be shorter than the were the past 2 years. In the past they were just done at an easy low HR pace. However, I have now noticed my long runs (being shorter) are taking much less out of me and are feeling relatively easy.

Should I just enjoy this or is there an appropriate way to work some speed into my long runs. Should I just gradually increase the overall pace of my long runs, add some tempo efforts in the middle, something else? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.



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Re: Speed During Long Run??? [SwBkRn44] [ In reply to ]
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some thoughts, take as just that. Find a hilly section and add that into your long run. Negative split your long run, close with 5k at tempo (which is below LT). run to the track and do some Km repeats at tempo on very short recovery intervals (say 200m at long run pace which makes for a convinent 3 laps per repeat) in the second half of your long run. Keep one of those long runs per month at 16-18 miles.

There is nothing wrong with your long runs feeling easier and taking less out of you. Congratulations on your increased fitness.

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Last edited by: desert dude: Jan 18, 06 7:01
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Re: Speed During Long Run??? [SwBkRn44] [ In reply to ]
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If your body is becoming more efficient through training effect, your long runs can get quicker, but should remain aerobic. You can throw in something like 15-20x 15 seconds at race pace with 45 second cruise. You can also run a hilly course, but still do it aerobically

Some programs add in 20 min blocks at your target race pace too.

Personally, I don't like to mix volume and intensity to the point that you are going anaerobic.

Better to do the intensity with mid week intervals, tempo runs, fartlek and hills. This way you can do more overall running volume at higher average quality. Throwing in large chunks of intensity in your long run, will just trash you.

You are better off running more often in harder chunks and take it easier on the long run.

Also, unless you are running sub 1:30 in a half Ironman, you get plenty of speed in mid week runs. To get fast at half Ironman, you have to be able to really hammer the entire swim and bike at pretty well Olympic tri intensity, and still be fresh and pull off a decent run.

So you need time in your week to do lots of swim and bike volume at fairly intense levels of effort. If you add intensity to your long run, your entire program will suffer.
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Re: Speed During Long Run??? [SwBkRn44] [ In reply to ]
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The experts have spoken, but I'll add an anecdote:

When I trained and PRd in the half marathon nearly 2 years ago, my long runs were a long run/tempo combo. It worked quite well: I would do 10-13 miles at a faster and faster pace. It worked like a charm. So I would start out a 8 min. miles but get down to 6:30 pace (almost tempo pace) for miles 8-9-10, then do 1-2 miles of cool down. It worked: I went from a 1:25 to a 1:21 in the half.

The run killed 2 birds with one stone and then I could focus on speed (trackwork) 1X a week with the rest of my running easy.
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Re: Speed During Long Run??? [SwBkRn44] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I am coming off a an Ironman and 2 seasons of long distance triathlon and marathon training. I have now noticed my long runs (being shorter) are taking much less out of me and are feeling relatively easy.

Should I just enjoy this or is there an appropriate way to work some speed into my long runs. Should I just gradually increase the overall pace of my long runs, add some tempo efforts in the middle, something else? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Aside from intentionally running hills, the best approach is to add the intensity to the end of the long run. Why? If you force yourself to do 'tempo' in the middle of the long run after having done only easy long runs up to this point in your career, six weeks later you might find yourself over the edge. For you (with two years experience) there is too much of a risk that you might get to the weekend with tired bike legs and run tempo in the middle of the run during a week when your body needs to just put in the miles. Maybe in a few years and several thousand miles later you will be ready for weekly intense long runs, but not yet. However, if you feel good you could (and should) close the run with anything from 2 miles at 1/2marathon pace to 10 miles at marathon pace. Nothing wrong with letting it rip to close out the run on a good day. If you don't feel good and run steady you have still gotten your mileage in.

I would not increase the overall pace of your steady long runs unless your body is telling you the current pace is way too easy. Your steady pace 'is what it is' and it will change when you are ready (i.e., Don't go from 7:45s to 7:30s just for the sake of running 15 seconds faster).

For a multisport athlete with only two years experience who will come to the long run with biking miles in the legs, it would probably be a good idea to limit the 'intense' long runs to once every two or three weeks. Strides in the middle of the run or afterward are always good (I believe someone mentioned this above).

Another under-utilized option is to make sure you get in a long warm up and cool down during your mid-week faster session(s). Instead of the usual 10 minute warmup and cooldown, build up to a four mile warmup and six to eight mile cool down.
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Re: Speed During Long Run??? [SwBkRn44] [ In reply to ]
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I know little of "theory" about this subject but from an athlete's point of view that's perfectly normal since you are running at the same pace for (maybe a lot) less time.

I'd speed the entire run a little bit. If you're doing now only 50-60', you can do them (a lot too) faster that you would in 90-100'! I'm now saying you to pass your target zone, but instead of pacing at the bottom level of that zone, go for the higher limit.

If you then feel a little less comfortable running, there's also other ways of doing it "harder": put some strides on the end of every run or choose a more hilly course.


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Re: Speed During Long Run??? [LarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the good info. I have about a 5k section at the end of my long run which has some gradual hills and one shorter steeper hill. I maybe start picking it up over that last section.

Just to clarify, I have been racing tris for about 5 years, was a rower in college and a runner in high school. What I meant to say was that I have only been doing long runs of 90'+ for about 2 years now. I have been logging solid mileage for 6 years or so but mostly to cross train for crew or to train for sprints and olympics. Anyway, thanks for the tips, take care.



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Re: Speed During Long Run??? [LarryP] [ In reply to ]
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"For a multisport athlete with only two years experience who will come to the long run with biking miles in the legs..."

This is a good argument for Rich Strauss's approach which is to take Fridays as your off day, do the long run on Saturday, and long ride on Sunday. Your legs are freshest for the long run, where the most injury risk is. It lets you do some mild intensity during that run, such as has been suggested. I like to toss a couple of 30-40 minute race pace/race pace +5% sets into a 2 or 2.5 hour run. As Dev notes, mild intensity is fine...just avoid anaerobic levels.
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Re: Speed During Long Run??? [LarryP] [ In reply to ]
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And Larry...I'm not sure where you're headed with that signature line of yours, but in my mind...a rest day IS training.
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Re: Speed During Long Run??? [SwBkRn44] [ In reply to ]
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Are you doing a tempo, hill and/or track day during the week on your non-long days? IMO, i'd say focus your "intensity" workouts on those days, and let your long runs be purely aerobic base. Reap the benefit of doing those days fresh, not tired from the quasi-intensity you put in during your long run. Make the intensity (tempo, hill and/or track) days harder if you can, not your long day.


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