BQ this year was -3:23, so realistically you'll want to be at a 3:26 or faster for your BQ submission

You've given a bunch of numbers, but not the most important ones. What's your most recent marathon time? Current fitness? Will a 3:26 be a stretch for you?

My question wasn’t to evaluate my BQ chances, so much as to figure out how to work riding sessions next into my training schedule. I don’t believe ST is the best place for marathon specific information. But how to manage multi-sport training for success? This place is magic. I also tend to ramble, so I didn’t want to lose focus by turning this into a “how do I qualify for Boston” post. However, I won’t assume this information isn’t needed to compile a response, so...
Current fitness is overall poor, honestly. However, in early June I completely quit drinking and have lost #18. Since have another 20+to go, but I’m already eating clean etc. Ive been logging mileage increases each week for a few months, and cruising at 9:30 pace easily enough on 30+ mpw at this point. While that’s a long way from the required 7:50 pace, I have plenty of time. I feel confident of 8:30 pace (3:43 performance) by end of May. If it takes until Fall, I can fly out and do Portland in October.
I haven’t done a full marathon since 1997, and my longest runs have been during 70.3 events. During those, my pace has been around 10:00, since I just don’t train the run. But, I’ve done a 3:00 marathon and 3 of them between 3:11 and 3:15, but again, I was way younger.
Regardless of my marathon outcome, can I mix in some trainer rides this winter/spring so I am not starting from zero on May 21st? Should they be Zone 2 spins? Or is this goal going to take 100% focus and I shouldn’t plan any multi-sport for 2018?

I think you really need to forget the bike and focus on the run if your 'A' race is a marathon and your plan is to BQ it - which probably requires a significant increase in running fitness over your current level. I may throw in a recovery bike ride once a week (recovery meaning 'recovery from running', not bike fitness), but you should probably be running 5-6 days a week during peak weeks with a few workouts and long run. You've run fast in the past, but like you said that was long ago, and you were younger.

Your recent times show your fitness isn't what you think it is - even if you're convinced in the head that your body is capable of more, until the body proves it I wouldn't put any faith in that. Thousands of people in every big marathon think they're stronger than they actually are - and fail miserably when their body calls them out around miles 15-20.

If this is your goal, make it your goal. Find a coach. Someone who can put you on a program to get you where you want to be.

The reason why I ask is because you can't make a comment on part of someone's training without knowing what their goal is and how hard they're going to have to work - I'm not evaluating your chances of getting into Boston, rather pointing out that you're going to train differently depending on your level of fitness. Here's the thing. If your A goal is specifically to get into Boston, you have a lot of work to do on the run and personally I would say that this isn't the year to try to balance much multisport training and competing. You're trying to take a LOT of time off your current pace, and you're going to need to do a lot of run specific training. Yes, 9:30 is a long way from that 7:50 pace, but so is 8:30.

contrary to what a lot of people think, I think you can run a successful marathon and still bike and swim. It's all about cumulative fatigue. Use the bike to fatigue the legs so the run seems more difficult.
Have bike training mirror run training:
Base phase bike and run z2 with longer ride on Sat and long run Sunday
Strength phase: big gear work on bike and hill work for run
Specific phase: intervals for both

Using the bike as part of your marathon training is totally doable. I ran the London Marathon this past April while prepping for a season of 70.3's and the LC Worlds over the summer.

While I was in marathon mode, I rode 3 - 4 times a week. 2-3 rides of around an hour. One ride might be all easy, zone 1 spinning, done usually on a recovery day at the start of the week. I'd have two interval rides in which I might do segments of 3 - 5 minutes at Half Iron or slightly above; again ride would be 60 minutes. I'd also try to do a ride of 90 minutes - 2 hours max near the end of the week and follow it up with a 30 minute run at an easy pace.

So, in a nutshell, here's what I did:

Monday - easy spin; 6 mile run easy.
Tuesday - Swim, Run intervals
Wednesday - Bike 60 minutes with intervals; if possible 20 - 30 minute run as well.
Thursday - Swim, Run tempo
Friday - Bike 60 minutes with intervals; if possible 20 - 30 minute run
Saturday - 90 - 2 hour bike with some tempo; 30 minute run
Sunday - long run

After the marathon, I adjusted to a more triathlon focused week (more swimming; more biking; run template stayed the same, but less mileage over all).

Worked for me and I managed to get up to around 55 miles a week and have a good triathlon season starting with a 70.3 2 months after the marathon.

Thanks again for the feedback. I’ll clarify one point: I don’t intend to actually run Boston. I’m using the Q time as a metric of getting myself motivated to get my running shape back. If I end up with 4:00 in the Spring, then a 3:35 in the Fall, I’m still going to be very excited with my “comeback”. I’m tired of jog/walking my 70.3s at 10:00 pace, and with my run background, there’s no excuse. I 110% agree with you that 8:30 pack is a long way off, and I also agree with the other post that says I’m not as fit as i think (though I am aware of how much work I have to do in the next year). Boston is a carrot to get me through the long runs in the rain/dark this winter. But run fitness is the true goal. I’m now doing 8-9 at the same heart rate/effort as my 3 milers were just a few months ago.
Yes, I need a coach, and have zero idea how to find one. I live near the SF Bay Area, so I’m sure there are some great ones nearby. My current plan was to focus 100% on running until the New Year, using the trainer only as an infrequent substitute. It’s in the January/February time frame that I get confused on what my best schedule should be to balance my goals. Every workout needs a purpose. Right now, the purpose is getting 500 miles in by the end of December, without injury, and laying a foundation.

Awesome reply, thanks. One thing to note might be that you started that block with better fitness, I’m guessing. But I do like the schedule. Especially since I won’t have pool access until Spring, so I can focus a bit more.

If you're not actually trying to get into Boston, that's obviously a different story, and I understand a lot more about what you're going for now.

I'm going to be frank. I think you have an unrealistic timeline as far as your run training and how much progress you'll make in that short period of time. The real question is, will you continue to train specifically for the run until you hit that 3:25 or 3:35? If that's the case, I don't think a big multisport event is in the cards for 2018, because one thing to keep in mind is the sheer amount of time that training will take when you run your miles in that 8:00-9:00mm range. Yes, you can throw in biking a couple of times a week in place of recovery runs - that's a reasonable substitution. But I'm looking at the bigger picture, in that the likelihood is that you will not have accomplished your intended goal by a May 21 start date for tri training. Does that make sense?

As far as the actual nuts and bolts of getting faster - you don't actually need a coach (unless you want one_, you just need a little bit of desire to learn more about the physiology of run training. There's a ton of great run plans out there, depending on how much time you want to dedicate and what level of commitment you're willing to make. Just remember this: if you want to get faster, you'll want to run both volume and have days where you run fast. The typical training rhythm is Intervals, Tempo, and Long Runs being your hard days, and then 1-3 additional days of recovery miles. FWIW, I think you can do it.

Thanks again. I guess I put the wrong information in the original post. And I think your assessment is likely spot on. The hard reality is that the last time I qualified, I ran more, weighed less and was a lot younger.... Goal setting is tough, since I want something that inspires, but needs to be realistic at the same time. When I did Oceanside and Half-Vineman in 2013, I missed a 2-hour run, which, for me, was a real bummer. Last year I took 6 months to take on a 2.4 mile swim, finished in 1:14, and feel really great about that. I thought I might do the same thing for running, and the focus on a full marathon would be a nice change of pace. Thus, the idea of getting as close to a BQ next year as I could.
But I went to Hawaii last week, and got the tri-buzz all over again, and starting thinking about that. Like a moth in a room of a dozen candles, I’m all over the place now. I registered for SR70.3, so it’s going to happen regardless if it’s an A or C race. I really do want to get my running back, but also don’t want to be off my bike for 6-8 months either. I’m currently running 5-7 days/week, and the long run next week will be 10m. I suppose I can’t really ask for advise until I know what I want, right? It’s possible I could have a perfect day in Santa Cruz on May 20th, and really get inspired to hit that 3:30. Equally possible I do 4:00, feel okay with that, and move on.

I'll turn 50 next year, and I ran my first Boston this year, after getting my first BQ the year before. A lot of my marathon training is on the bike.

I've never been able to handle high run volume -- usually maxing out around 35-40 miles -- because I get too beat up without a supply of no-run days. For marathon training, I usually run 3x per week, bike 2x per week, and swim once. (I could do without the swim.) For tri training, I'll add a third bike ride and sometimes a second swim,depending on the length of the tri.

Timing for biking during marathon training: I do my running interval workouts on Tuesday nights, then I do intervals on the bike on Weds. It's almost like doing tempo runs on the bike, but without the pounding.

I do my long run on Saturday morning, then a long endurance-paced bike some time on Sunday.

On Thursday, I do a fairly easy-paced run of about an hour at most, so I never really to a tempo run, except with the Tuesday intervals get really long.

Mileage peak is approx: Tuesday intervals: 10 miles; Thursday easy run is about 7-8 miles; Saturday long run is 24 miles. So that's about 42 at the most. Bike time is about an hour of intervals on Weds. and up to 3 hours on the bike on Sunday.

---

<The Dew Abides>

This is really helpful. Thanks!
So this thread isn't likely all that interesting to most, so let me throw out one last summary for input, and then I'll move on.
By the beginning of November I should be up to around 40mpw, and the plan was to hold there for a month and make sure I'm solid. All of it Zone2 unless I'm feeling good and want to push a little. No intervals or even structured Tempo work this early. Below, I'll type out my expected week for running. (the week after American Thanksgiving will be a de-load week). Yeah, I can't have completely focused Marathon training and still raise my FTP, so it probably comes down to some hard choices. So let's say I want 75% commitment to running, and 25% bike fitness (no pool until April). Knowing that I'm balancing and giving up some marathon speed in exchange for bike fitness. Anyone want to throw out some ideas on an 8 hour training week for December and January? I'm at about 6 hours for 40mpw.

Distance in Miles:
M: 7
T: 4
W: 6
R: 4
F: 4
S: 12
S: 3 (or off)
*Note - the 6 today felt very easy. I'm adding ~5%/week for 3 weeks, then deloading. No adding intensity until I get the mileage up without injury.
10/16 36mpw
10/23 38mpw
10/30 40mpw