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Track Interval strategy for Marathon training
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My triathlon season is over and I am starting to prepare for the California International Marathon the first week of December. I am looking for a little advice on how to structure my weekly track efforts. I have always done at least one track session per week, but often times it has been a haphazard workout. Looking for ideas on a good progression over the course of the build.

A few other tidbits:
Age: 35, male, 168lbs, 6'1"
Current 26.2 PR: 3:14 (set in 2014, last open race)
Goal time: ~3:05ish
Current 13.1 PR: 1:26
YTD Mileage: Have averaged 27 mpw in 2017, and looking to average closer to 40-50 during this build. I averaged over 40 in Q3/Q4 last year as I was building my run base
Marathon training schedule: 5 runs a week, two easy runs and a track session during the week, then quality session with race pace efforts on Saturday (8-11 miles), and a long run on Sunday.

Appreciate any feedback
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Re: Track Interval strategy for Marathon training [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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No matter what anyone else here says, do not do Yasso 800s as a workout, that stuff is BS.

If you have to schedule your week that way (I wouldn't) I would critique it the following:

1) On those easy days, do strides. Every dang time. And do them properly.
2) Rather than go to the track, find a flat section of road to do your "track" workouts. You aren't running a marathon on the track, you want to get used to running fast on the road.
3) I'd rotate between a few different types of quality on that Tuesday on the roads.
-1000 meter repeats at 5k pace with 2 minutes recovery, 5-8 depending on how you feel. Once it's hard to keep true 5k pace, you quit.
-2 miles at true threshold pace, 10 x 100 strides, 2 miles at true threshold pace. Only take 45 seconds after finishing the threshold miles before doing the strides
-4 to 5 miles at true threshold pace

Again, I wouldn't put a schedule together like you are, but that's the advice I'd give on that.

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
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Re: Track Interval strategy for Marathon training [marklemcd] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for the feedback, i will try to incorporate some of those sets. what do you not like about the schedule? i used a jack daniels plan last fall and it was generally setup this way, though i believe it had 6 runs/week. from my perspective i am getting a good combination of rest days, easy miles, and quality work.
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Re: Track Interval strategy for Marathon training [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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Do you use a HR monitor or do you go off RPE?

Favorite speed workouts (2 mile WU and 2 mile CD for A and B):

A. 10 x 1000m (threshold pace, rest is at a slower pace to return to Zone 2 or comfortable speaking)
B. 12 x 400m (above threshold pace, rest is same as above)
C. Fartlek where I intermittently do 4-5 mile repeats at 5K pace

I don't think you need a large number of diverse track workouts, and prefer to have A and B so that I can see my paces improving and/or my rest times shortening.

I like you easy, speed, easy, tempo, long plan. Agree with strides after easy workouts. If not recovered from speed, tempo, or long then stretch instead of easy run.
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Re: Track Interval strategy for Marathon training [equanimity511] [ In reply to ]
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equanimity511 wrote:
Do you use a HR monitor or do you go off RPE?

this part here could be interesting. michael jackson. munch munch.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Track Interval strategy for Marathon training [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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Doing any hill work? I'm in almost the exact same boat as you and considering incorporating my intervals on a hill instead of flats.
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Re: Track Interval strategy for Marathon training [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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milkman1982 wrote:
thanks for the feedback, i will try to incorporate some of those sets. what do you not like about the schedule? i used a jack daniels plan last fall and it was generally setup this way, though i believe it had 6 runs/week. from my perspective i am getting a good combination of rest days, easy miles, and quality work.

I've trained and raced a lot of marathons, and I've trained others to as well. I've found that for people running low mileage, like you, that there's more benefit to be gained by doing continuous quality than by hitting the track. You've got to train your legs to be ready to pound for 26 miles and pounding for 800m then stopping and doing it repeatedly isn't your best bang for the buck when only running 40-50 miles weekly.

If I were training someone who wanted to do 5 runs a week I'd set it up a bit differently. I understand you probably have your Saturday/Sunday set up the way you do because you have free time. So in that case what I'd do is a bit different than what you're doing.

I'd do a quality day on Wednesday, typically I'd try and put this one in the threshold range. Always as much continuous as makes sense. Warm up and do 3 sets of 2 miles, or 2 sets of 3 miles, or a continuous 6-8 miles easing a bit off the pace you'd do a 3 mile threshold at. Every few weeks do 1000s at 5k pace instead. Saturday's I'd probably alternate between 400 meter repeats (on the road, up to 10 with full recovery) and running close to CURRENT marathon effort or slightly slower. On weeks with a longer long run do the 400s, on weeks with a shorter long run do the marathon effort.

Add in recovery runs around there, doing strides at the end of them. It would also be good to make that Wednesday one as long as possible in terms of mileage. If you can get the warm up and cool down to make it 12 miles, that's awesome. Also the reason I put it on Wednesday is after 2 quality days in a row you need a bit of recovery.

Good luck with CIM, I've done it 7 times and set my all time best there. Great race.
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Re: Track Interval strategy for Marathon training [marklemcd] [ In reply to ]
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marklemcd wrote:
milkman1982 wrote:
thanks for the feedback, i will try to incorporate some of those sets. what do you not like about the schedule? i used a jack daniels plan last fall and it was generally setup this way, though i believe it had 6 runs/week. from my perspective i am getting a good combination of rest days, easy miles, and quality work.


I've trained and raced a lot of marathons, and I've trained others to as well. I've found that for people running low mileage, like you, that there's more benefit to be gained by doing continuous quality than by hitting the track. You've got to train your legs to be ready to pound for 26 miles and pounding for 800m then stopping and doing it repeatedly isn't your best bang for the buck when only running 40-50 miles weekly.

If I were training someone who wanted to do 5 runs a week I'd set it up a bit differently. I understand you probably have your Saturday/Sunday set up the way you do because you have free time. So in that case what I'd do is a bit different than what you're doing.

I'd do a quality day on Wednesday, typically I'd try and put this one in the threshold range. Always as much continuous as makes sense. Warm up and do 3 sets of 2 miles, or 2 sets of 3 miles, or a continuous 6-8 miles easing a bit off the pace you'd do a 3 mile threshold at. Every few weeks do 1000s at 5k pace instead. Saturday's I'd probably alternate between 400 meter repeats (on the road, up to 10 with full recovery) and running close to CURRENT marathon effort or slightly slower. On weeks with a longer long run do the 400s, on weeks with a shorter long run do the marathon effort.

Add in recovery runs around there, doing strides at the end of them. It would also be good to make that Wednesday one as long as possible in terms of mileage. If you can get the warm up and cool down to make it 12 miles, that's awesome. Also the reason I put it on Wednesday is after 2 quality days in a row you need a bit of recovery.

Good luck with CIM, I've done it 7 times and set my all time best there. Great race.

thanks this is helpful. i appreciate it!
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Re: Track Interval strategy for Marathon training [equanimity511] [ In reply to ]
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equanimity511 wrote:
Do you use a HR monitor or do you go off RPE?

Favorite speed workouts (2 mile WU and 2 mile CD for A and B):

A. 10 x 1000m (threshold pace, rest is at a slower pace to return to Zone 2 or comfortable speaking)
B. 12 x 400m (above threshold pace, rest is same as above)
C. Fartlek where I intermittently do 4-5 mile repeats at 5K pace

I don't think you need a large number of diverse track workouts, and prefer to have A and B so that I can see my paces improving and/or my rest times shortening.

I like you easy, speed, easy, tempo, long plan. Agree with strides after easy workouts. If not recovered from speed, tempo, or long then stretch instead of easy run.

So you'd have him do only 1000 meters at a time a threshold but do miles at 5k? And 400s "above threshold" whatever that means? What does that mean? And what's with the long rest on threshold?

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
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Re: Track Interval strategy for Marathon training [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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That guy gave good advice but why do you want to run such low miles? Imho this track method is kind of Russian roulette with likelihood of blowing up later in the race
Last edited by: synthetic: Aug 14, 17 14:44
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Re: Track Interval strategy for Marathon training [marklemcd] [ In reply to ]
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Marklemcd, I went to your blog. Your last post in January says your are injured. Did you overcome the injury? If so how?

Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

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Re: Track Interval strategy for Marathon training [SDJ] [ In reply to ]
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SDJ wrote:
Marklemcd, I went to your blog. Your last post in January says your are injured. Did you overcome the injury? If so how?

Sort of. Tore my groin in Jan 2016, it's been really stubborn to heal. By March of this year I was feeling pretty good and then over extended my self a bit and strained my calf. That's all healed, and the groin is about 95%, but is likely never to get to 100% so that's where I'm going to be at pretty much for good.

What has happened is that I started biking and like it pretty well, especially not having my legs feel like death all the time like is pretty much required to run at your potential level, so there's that.

Running fitness definitely makes bike fitness come on fast too. I read comments about people being wrecked for a while after certain hard bike workouts and I never feel that way. I thank running for that.

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
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