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Re: Which IM brand races are circling the drain? [DrMonkeyhead] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.ironman.com/~/media/74b8ad38932648debe12d7f8f3d91460/im%20maryland%20athlete%20guide%20reduced%20size.pdf

Notice page 15 of the 2017 IMMD Guide. 2018 is a go for IMMD. Looks like a late September race for 2018 though. Gerry Boyle put nay sayers to rest in the IMMD facebook group as well
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Re: Which IM brand races are circling the drain? [xcchampion11] [ In reply to ]
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Ask him about 2019....Next year is the final year of the contract. Not sure if anyone said Maryland would be gone before the contract ended, but they probably won't sign a new contract.

Unless they adapt the new 70.3/Ironman same day course. Or numbers go way up in the next 2 years. I am pretty sure with the current registration number they are either losing money or barely breaking even.
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Re: Which IM brand races are circling the drain? [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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Murphy'sLaw wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
MarkyV wrote:
From what I got from the CDA P&L was that there were profit floors that had some rather remarkable profit margin percentage targets. i.e. they would still make a hefty profit at 1200 athletes but it wouldn't meet their internal targets (<-- my extrapolation).

#thanksprivateequity


I wonder how many greats races/venues has WTC taken over and then killed due to not meeting profit targets but otherwise would have continued under and independent RD?


Mooseman - RIP.
Timberman - RIP.

Timberman is mind boggling - they always had very large crowds there.
We stopped doing it in '09 - "it's so crowded, nobody goes there anymore."
2016 results show 2096 athletes.
2015 1859.
2014 2238.
For reference - 2009 had 2426.

If you can't turn a reasonable profit from 2k racers every year, then that's an RD problem, not the race or participants problem.

Mooseman was the perfect venue for a 400-600 person non WTC local event. I actually never got to to it as a local event and did it a few times as a WTC event, but it never really fit the WTC model and the course was "too tough" for the WTC 2000 person target. No problem getting 400 people who want a really tough course, but another 1600 people is a stretch.

Timberman I cannot understand why it can't be profitable. Must be something related to fixed costs of controlling the roads and state park etc.
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Re: Which IM brand races are circling the drain? [xcchampion11] [ In reply to ]
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xcchampion11 wrote:
zoom wrote:
The venue may be part of the problem. It's in the middle of nowhere. There's not much for your family to do out there.

Lack of hotels in the vicinity. You pretty much have to drive 20-30 miles out if the few around the race site sells out. It's not the easiest swim out there. It can be choppy with not so helpful current. The wind is a constant. People would rather deal with a little hill than to fight wind all day.

It's also competing against Chatt and Louisville during the same time, for the same regional athletes.

xcchampion11 wrote:
Explain to me the reasoning for Maryland? I understand the weather concerns, aka the weather has been crap the last two years, but those are two extremely abnormal occurances. Weather is weather and you can''t predict it. This is one of the easiest courses on the circut. Flat and fast. With a great weather race this year, I'd expect the numbers for next year to bounce back to 2k


I'd agree to most of this other than the wind. Look at IMFL, windy as h*** but people will go there for a fast time. As for the weather I say look at Eagleman. One fo the best 70.3's on the circut and in the same exact location. I honestly feel as if weather hadn't been the issue the past two years this race wouldn't be on this thread. IMMD is comparable to IMFL imo.

Really? Just curious what the attraction of Eagleman is. I've done a couple dozen half's and would say that Eagleman is the worst of them all. A flat boring course, very hot, lots of crowds and drafting. I would not even put it in the same league as Challenge Maine, Savageman, Kinetic or Waterman's. Besides Maine all of those races are in the same general area {more or less)
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Re: Which IM brand races are circling the drain? [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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helo guy wrote:

Really? Just curious what the attraction of Eagleman is. I've done a couple dozen half's and would say that Eagleman is the worst of them all. A flat boring course, very hot, lots of crowds and drafting. I would not even put it in the same league as Challenge Maine, Savageman, Kinetic or Waterman's. Besides Maine all of those races are in the same general area {more or less)

The drafting does provide some gnarly bike splits if it's not too windy. And deep down in places we don't talk about at parties, I think a lot of triathletes are drawn to the Mdot for that.
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Re: Which IM brand races are circling the drain? [beastofbourbon] [ In reply to ]
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beastofbourbon wrote:
helo guy wrote:
And deep down in places we don't talk about at parties, I think a lot of triathletes are drawn to the Mdot for that.

Solid and on point "A Few Good Men" reference.

It is the mind itself which builds the body.
-Joseph Pilates
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Re: Which IM brand races are circling the drain? [davejustdave] [ In reply to ]
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I was a spectator at Timbermann last year. It just plain sucked from a spectator point of view. You spent all day compartmentalized in a parking lot for the entire duration, surrounded by a thousand cars and fifty over-flowing port-o-pottys. The traffic was horrible getting in and out, and there werent many hotels in the area. The town could not possibly benefit much from its presence there. The juice likely wasnt worth the squeeze. Having all those roads closed likely aggravated the locals and business owners-they made no money off the deal, and only got aggravation in return. Just my 2 cents.
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