Did you, and other swimmers, learn very much from this??? I would *think* that, by the time a swimmer has made the National Team, he/she would generally not have any "flat spots" in their power generation, but I could be way off base here.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Yep, it was with G! Great dude. Last I heard he was with Modern Pentathlon.

That was exactly the system I was referring to.

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I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

Always something to be learned. How do you get better if not for learning?

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I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

it takes a wide range of skills...

when getting into the feet of those guys in the pool....quicker turnover and shorter stroke will help you stay there. but that take some conditionning to be able to substain this turnover.

but if swimming alone...you will be better off having a stroke more in line with your normal pool swimming...longer.... with emphasis on the catch etc.

pace clock,. perceive exersion might be your friends until powermeter get cheaper and more refine for swimmers. But it should be very interesting in a few years to see what come up!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Can you briefly talk a little about what you learned???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I wonder if the Stryd is waterproof? It'll certainly deal with a little rain...

Ignoring power for now a swimming Stryd could be really useful just for in-length or open water pace information.

Open water you should get a more accurate distance calulation (vs watch GPS) & in a pool you'd be able to see pace variance within a length, the impact of push off/drafting, more accurate lap start/end times...

No.

I'm don't remember any specifics, but I'm sure it was hand placement, pull pattern, head position and breath timing.

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I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

I see, OK, thanks for that info. Prob it is the kind of stuff that is very hard to describe in words but rather needs to be demonstrated in the water.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Yeah, the last time I did significant filming/mechanical work was nearly 10 years ago. I can say that as I got older i moved away from the "s" pull stroke i learned as a youth, to a more straight arm catch/pull. I also got rid of explicitly focusing on high elbow recovery, because I often placed my hand in too soon and had to push forward to initiate my catch - so a more "open" recovery. Head position and breath are correlated - at speed I often started my breath too late and would get caught under my recovering arm, causing my head to dip all the way under when i returned to center. Early/shorter breath with a slightly higher head helped.

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I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

I think all you need is visual feedback (the trained eye of a coach, video if no coach) and a pace clock. Luckily, much is known about efficient swimming, and you can learn a lot from watching other swimmers, coaching resources, drills, videos, books etc. Take advantage of the accumulated experience of millions of swimmers. We're all mostly alike as humans, so no need to reinvent the wheel and try to create an efficient stroke from the ground up using sensors to guide what is and isn't efficient. Learn to get in good positions (analysis, drills, strength development), develop a sense of what that FEELS like in the water, practice that feel, rinse, repeat, and watch the pace clock go down for a given perceived effort. That's about all there is to it. It's much more like practicing a skill like a golf swing, than it is like mashing the cranks on a bike trainer.

that is interesting..
my brother and I used to tie each other to fishing lines and test the fishing reel drag systems that way, never found a reel that could stop him ;-)

I agree but also disagree. Agreed there is nothing new to "invent" and we can look at plenty of people swimming fast all day long. But disagree in that there def. could be better ways to apply these knowns to aspiring swimmers. If what you say is true, then what the heck are 99% of the swimming public doing?? I've seen the most funky strokes and that is the norm, speed notwithstanding. Certainly not efficient FS. For accomplished swimmers - in our 2km/4km race there were a only handful that were at or near 2km/30 min or 4km/hr pace and of those were talkin' former National team/level.

You need to jump into the skin of one of these swim beasts and see what it takes, is my point. Just like a golf swing machine. My theory is that it could be done electronically. OK so this aft I ducked out to the pool and hammered as best I could, on a gazillion seconds rest. GPS'd in cap - got to the mark at least. Last lap I was motoring down the middle/passing fair enough. Slowed down for some traffic @ end & this bully comes between us all like a whale on fire. Been a while since I had a pool dust-up. I gave him the Sagan elbow. Got his nose plug out of joint over my little speed test!.

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

Regarding head position, it seems that the faster a swimmer is going, the higher his/her head tends to ride in the water. On the hand entry, I've seen lots of swimmers who swim pretty well but prob would go a little faster if their hand entry were not just 3-4 inches in front of their head.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Hmmm, well, you're going to have to explain the fishing reel drag systems to me, not familiar with those at all. Do reels come with some specified drag???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

You could get the force part of the equation with swim cap sensors measuring against the water as you go forward. I'm not sure where the cadence side of the equation comes from as sprinters generate much from the leg speed. Long distance swimmers won't have as much leg speed. Or is arm speed just the cadence standard? There also needs to be some ability to measure hydrodynamic drag (v. a constant?) as a measure of efficiency. This has to change with different strokes too. How all this is turned into watts seems to be more challenging in my eyes.

Surges in lift and forward movement capture cadence. They also capture drag, kick, position, head angle .... everything. The poor swimmer will have big energy consuming surges up (then down) and forward, whereas the good swimmer will maintain a higher lift with less descent into the water and will experience surges forward, just with less pause between those surges so they look continuous. With those two outcome variables (made up of a number of lower order variables), measurable with a clip on the rear of the suit (think 1st gen Stryd), you'd have a highly predictable model for coming up with a power number where 1watt correlates strongly with 1 Kcal expended.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

basically an adjustable slip/clutch system. The hard parts are getting the slip to be smooth and not jerky, and getting sufficient resistance to stop big ocean fish. The technicalities are endless, just as in bikes or any other good hobby ;-)

OK, thanks for this info.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I ordered RunScribe yesterday and also posted a question on their forum regarding swimming/ if they are waterproof.

I am getting convinced my "power meter" analogy is pretty much what I need to do to swim faster. After pool testing different strokes I hit open water today & changed my stroke style to a Cyndi loper :). My buddy Owen swims like this, big time lope. The basic premise is to get more power into the water, up the cadence, facilitate breath/circulation. Like spinning on a bike. Pool testing was 130M. After a morning session, this afternoon I was able to extend to about 250-300M per "lope".

Sampling of results are encouraging :


I didn't want to be a loper, truth be told. But if I have to bang and crash, so be it!

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

Got the Runscribe sensors in the mail today and I didn't have anything to link up to them (phone is too old, Android VM didn't work). So we updated my son's IPad tonight and sync'd up these little e-bugs.

Then I went for a super quick swim & got some data. Without the software engineering to properly process a swim stroke, things are impossible to interpret other than the left is different than the right. But the data tracking or accelerometer tech is solid stuff. I made this mock screen w/actual scribes to show what could be.

I also did a manual version of stroke diagnostics using video. I thought I'd better shoot some vid of my stroke as it's a been over a year - and I have not been swimming that much. My left side was clearly seized up, so I dug out my Speedo Tech paddles. It was a real surprise how effective the paddles were on getting a stroke fix underway. Documented that exercise here: <https://twitter.com/...s/887801913470615552

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com