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Breathing underwater
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Awhile ago we had a discussion about improving body position and there was some disagreement about exhaling continuously underwater vs all at the end. Someone posted a video of Michael Phelps. I wondered if distance swimmers (most triathletes) were different and I wasn't sure that the Phelps video was clear. Look at this one of Thorpe especially between 1:50 and 2:00 and 1:00 and 1:10. Or 2:55 to 3:30 I can not say he is continuously exhaling it is more intermittant while underwater with a blep at the end. What do you think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHszSCgMkpU

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Last edited by: len: Jun 2, 17 14:18
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Re: Breathing underwater [len] [ In reply to ]
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On the non-sprint speed stuff, it looks like he's exhaling in concert with the peak power phase of each pull.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: Breathing underwater [len] [ In reply to ]
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I time my breathing/stroke rate to this and it's been working great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLNhzxoTJBQ
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Re: Breathing underwater [peace242000] [ In reply to ]
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That is awesome forgot about that song

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Last edited by: len: Jun 2, 17 15:06
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Re: Breathing underwater [len] [ In reply to ]
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You are correct to look into this.

Because air in lungs is a swimmer's buoyancy, the more the better - so why let go of it? You'll be more efficient hydrodynamically with the air.

I found the answer is to exhale very controlled, in a multivariable, logarithmic algorithm :)

Just kiddin' - but yes, I kind of restrict with the mouth then puff at the end also when the mouth is turning to breathe.

Works great. I breathe 1 for 3 alternating left and right for the most part.

PS: About Thorpe: His chest/sternum is the bottom of his draft in the water. Of course his spine and posture is functioning 100% so he could swim heads up if we wanted to with little change in body position.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
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Last edited by: SharkFM: Jun 2, 17 18:25
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Re: Breathing underwater [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
Awhile ago we had a discussion about improving body position and there was some disagreement about exhaling continuously underwater vs all at the end. Someone posted a video of Michael Phelps. I wondered if distance swimmers (most triathletes) were different and I wasn't sure that the Phelps video was clear. Look at this one of Thorpe especially between 1:50 and 2:00 and 1:00 and 1:10. Or 2:55 to 3:30 I can not say he is continuously exhaling it is more intermittant while underwater with a blep at the end. What do you think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHszSCgMkpU

I honestly do not think it makes any difference at all; exhale however you feel most comfortable and don't worry about it. You can't focus on more than 1 or 2 things at time when swimming, and this one is so very minor as to not be even in the top 20 things to think about/focus on.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Breathing underwater [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:

I honestly do not think it makes any difference at all; exhale however you feel most comfortable and don't worry about it. You can't focus on more than 1 or 2 things at time when swimming, and this one is so very minor as to not be even in the top 20 things to think about/focus on.

It's not minor. that's like saying buoyancy from and illegal suit is minor. You can puff out a pretty big balloon in one breath - how much does that float? It's almost a pull buoy worth. Do that math over distance and it's significant. Like XX watts on the bike.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com
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Re: Breathing underwater [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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SharkFM wrote:
ericmulk wrote:


I honestly do not think it makes any difference at all; exhale however you feel most comfortable and don't worry about it. You can't focus on more than 1 or 2 things at time when swimming, and this one is so very minor as to not be even in the top 20 things to think about/focus on.


It's not minor. that's like saying buoyancy from and illegal suit is minor. You can puff out a pretty big balloon in one breath - how much does that float? It's almost a pull buoy worth. Do that math over distance and it's significant. Like XX watts on the bike.

In any swim over 50 yd/m, you are constantly inhaling and exhaling; holding your breath before exhaling all at once makes no sense as it makes it harder to get all the air out before taking next breath. AFAIK, this is the way breathing has been taught for decades, and I still see reminders in Swimming World articles to never hold your breath. Inhaling/exhaling balances out in any race over 50 yd/m; when swimming a 50 race, holding the breath is prob valuable b/c it does take a fraction of a second to breath, but that kind of breath-holding is a bit diff from what you're talking about.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Breathing underwater [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Kits pool today in a chill wind and rain! ~ A dozen swimmers this morning.

Anyway I wanted to clarify it's not breath holding, but air-controlling. So you inflate, purse/restricted outlet, as you roll to breathe then full flow, inflate again.

Look at the video again that is what is going on.

Air (exchange) is over-rated. The need to breathe is neurologically based on false/inferred measurement, not from actual requirements. Training reduces the panic-stress-survival reaction for air - which causes our bodies to clench, heads to lift, generally upsetting good swim positioning.
Speaking from experience of course :) and working on it!

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com
Last edited by: SharkFM: Jun 15, 17 12:17
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Re: Breathing underwater [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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SharkFM wrote:
ericmulk wrote:


I honestly do not think it makes any difference at all; exhale however you feel most comfortable and don't worry about it. You can't focus on more than 1 or 2 things at time when swimming, and this one is so very minor as to not be even in the top 20 things to think about/focus on.


It's not minor. that's like saying buoyancy from and illegal suit is minor. You can puff out a pretty big balloon in one breath - how much does that float? It's almost a pull buoy worth. Do that math over distance and it's significant. Like XX watts on the bike.

Last I checked my lungs aren't between my legs. I get what you are saying about buoyancy, but where you are applying the buoyant force matters. Poor body position (legs down) plus lungs full of air, floating your upper body, could conceivably make things worse.
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Re: Breathing underwater [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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I read somewhere that Thorpe lifts his head a bit because he needs to sink his feet a bit otherwise they are not underwater. The opposite of most swimmers whose legs are too low. Good body position.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Breathing underwater [mhepp] [ In reply to ]
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mhepp wrote:
SharkFM wrote:
ericmulk wrote:


I honestly do not think it makes any difference at all; exhale however you feel most comfortable and don't worry about it. You can't focus on more than 1 or 2 things at time when swimming, and this one is so very minor as to not be even in the top 20 things to think about/focus on.


It's not minor. that's like saying buoyancy from and illegal suit is minor. You can puff out a pretty big balloon in one breath - how much does that float? It's almost a pull buoy worth. Do that math over distance and it's significant. Like XX watts on the bike.


Last I checked my lungs aren't between my legs. I get what you are saying about buoyancy, but where you are applying the buoyant force matters. Poor body position (legs down) plus lungs full of air, floating your upper body, could conceivably make things worse.

I think for 90% of average swimmers it does make it worse, most have poor body position exacerbated by holding their breath.
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Re: Breathing underwater [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
On the non-sprint speed stuff, it looks like he's exhaling in concert with the peak power phase of each pull.

Quite correct. This week's discovery: Allow air to exhale with the force of the pull (1:3 pattern or greater) otherwise clamp it.

Benefits are
1. Diaphragm is using the tension of the pull to overcome water pressure = free energy
2. Creates a more relaxed chest cavity
3, Seems to ease the mind as well because now we have a distinct breathing method

I start swims with 1:3 pattern, then at some point I get this " I gotta breathe more" feeling and I have to switch to 1:2 and play catch-up. But say up to my -40's I could hold my breath and seemingly u/w swim or dive a long time. Never had that nasty panic-feeling for air.

This week I traced that feeling to what could be tension in the chest cavity. Which brought me to work with the pull on exhaling and voila, no more "I gotta breathe". 1:3 in perpetuity & looking forward to extending that to 1:5 or 6 etc.

In summary puff air when you pull, otherwise close your mouth/restrict exhale. Give it a try.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com
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