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Re: Ask me anything about St. George! [newManUK] [ In reply to ]
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newManUK wrote:
sciguy wrote:
newManUK wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
kileyay wrote:
BenKanute wrote:
I only was fit periodically on the TT bike, and I did not ride much in that position until this past fall.


Do you have any side profile pictures or video of this fit? I'm curious what your position looks like to go 2:06 on 309W. Did you guys have a tailwind?


I think the more interesting question is what kind of watts does it take Brownlee, Sanders, and Kienle to go 2:01. Looks like maybe 50-75 meters net downhill but still lots of climbing. With it being point-to-point I guess the wind direction could be the most important factor for a particular day. Regardless, that is just stupid fast on a course like that IMHO


Not to hijack Ben's thread but I just wanted to point out that Tim once again out biked the stronger riders! This time there was no leading cars etc. He had the 4th quickest bike on the day. Maybe you need to get your calculator out again?


Your obviously a big TD fan. It was mentioned multiple times during the race coverage that Tim was "tucked in " very firmly with those following the strong bikers i.e. he was taking advantage of every bit of legal draft that was available. The amount that provides has been highly debated but it certainly exists. Unlike Alistair or Lionel, his nose seemed to never be directly in the water or wind all day long until the run.


Yes I like Tim. He is a local London boy and top bloke. Do I think he is going to beat AB/JF/JG in a race in the near future? No. Would I like my hair like his. No thank you. However, he was called out, by a competitor, in an interview for using lead cars. Thomas claimed he broke the laws of physics with his 1st/2nd 70.3 victories! This time he wasn't in the lead and still out biked those behind! Now you are claiming he was following all the way. The last bike video we got of him from St George was up the hill and he was on his own trying to hold a gap to LS/KS. Sounds like a damned if you do. damned if you don't scenario to me.

Fwiw, I wasn't the one that brought this up originally. This was brought up by some other competitors and observers at the race specifically on different mediums. I just added some color from my perspective at the front of races on here.

I will say this again though as I have said in other threads. I have gained an unfair advantage before in races. I could even go back and compile those races if need be and I am not even usually at the very front of the race. I will say that when I am at the very front of the race, usually smaller races, that is where I have received the most benefit. On rare occasion it works out to my disadvantage. Cop turns the wrong way etc. The difference is that I talk about it and don't just dismiss it. I also don't remain anonymous.I had hoped to bring it up more and more to bring greater awareness. Obviously some of my attempts have backfired and unfortunately I can't spearhead ever single public works project in the sport of triathlon. For now I let it rest. I would have hoped that some of The Greats would have worked on the issue in their retirements. Many of us (still competing) internally talk about it. None of us want an advantage, we just want a fair race.

Not sure what video you have from him at St George, or why you would be even be in possession of it as the race wasn't videoed. I am not going to call out for tucking in. I can let people be their own judge after data point after data point, race after race. It is nice to see 2 seconds gaps though because two second confirms that they are greater than 12 meters at 26mph. For the record at 26mph you cover 11.62304 meters per second.

Fwiw, as many of my peers know as well, it isn't uncommon for me to barely hang onto a group on the flats but as soon as we start to climb, I actually get to rest and often charge to the front. This is simply because my strength to weight is higher, and aerodynamics (not my forte) is not nearly at play. While some dread the climbs, I actually pray for them because they actually give me a chance to recover even while pushing the pace. Anecdotally I once crashed in a race and over the next 60 minutes I gained no time on the group I had been riding with despite now being 40 watts highers. It wasn't until a 3:30 climb, where I held 365 that I rapidly made up the 30 seconds, passing every single one of them on the climb. They had no idea how hard I just worked to catch back up. I think we always forget how much of a team sport this still is to some extent even if we don't think about it that. The reality is there is safety in numbers.

I don't know what your agendas or motives are, it is frankly hard for me to determine with your anonymous handle. Just to be clear, I am not calling out TD here. I am reiterating to you personally, but publicly, that I have benefited from lead vehicles before. If I could avoid it I would but in reality there is little you can do in the moment. I do try to have discussions with operations people before and after the race and I have even thought about requesting, and so have a few of my peers, to have the lead officer in charge of the race attend the pro meeting so we can plead our case. I had hoped that maybe I could benefit some day at a major race just so I could DQ myself and create a huge driving force for change thru awareness. I don't see that happening.

It sounds like you are pretty close to Tim to me. I would be curious to here his personal thoughts on the issue and whether he is for or against the lead car parade. To me, we can accomplish the same thing with the lead vehicle a mile a head.


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Re: Ask me anything about St. George! [ToBeasy] [ In reply to ]
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ToBeasy wrote:
My question is not about St. George or 70.3 but I always wonder about one thing. How is your bike volume when training only for ITU (Rio for example)? Do you still put in a lot of miles on top of the fast and short high-end key sessions? How important and long are long rides for short course racing?

I mean you always here about the Brownlees and then riding 18000 km a year, doing four hour rides, riding everyday etc. So I am very curious about you other ITU guys.

Thanks for this thread, its very interesting. And congrats on St. George.

That is kind of a hard one to answer. my training has change quite a bit since switching to Jim, but my volume has gone up. With the training cycle we have been doing, there is definitely a week devoted to putting in miles, and there is a week devoted to high-end sessions. The long rides are still important for short course because you need that strength and aerobic base to build the speed on top of.

The Brownlees have always pushed the limits of training. I think very few people can handle the load that they do. Many have tried to train with them, and most break under that kind of training load.
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Re: Ask me anything about St. George! [alien] [ In reply to ]
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alien wrote:
Great race Ben. I have followed you racing for the last couple years. ITU coverage is so much better than Ironman. My question is how do you decide who to follow in a swim? (I know, you get out in front and it's their problem) I imagine you know your competition and their swim speed so maybe a better question is what advice do you give people, AG, when drafting a swim? I have tried to follow people, mostly unsuccessful, but when I do grab some feet it feels too easy and that scares me. It's not like you can look at your watch or power meter. Do you go by perceived effort and if it's easy go to the next feet?

Thanks

I usually use the first turn buoy as a check point. I want to be in the top five there. That gives me enough room to breathe, and it also positions me well for the race. I would say it depends on what race you are doing. For example, I knew I wanted to push the pace in St. George, so I went to the front and never looked back, but in an ITU race, I am more than happy to let someone else push the pace while I sit on the feet.

I would say to find some feet and hang on. Give yourself a few hundred yards for a rest and look to see where the next pair of feet are. Then speed up and go catch those. The tricky thing is, you save so much energy swimming on someone's feet in a race. It is like drafting on the bike into a headwind. It feels super easy, but to go around takes a big effort. Patience is definitely key. The race is still in its early stages in the swim, so if you come out feeling good, you can always use that energy later!
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