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2-beat kick for progressing swimmer -- yes or no?
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I'm new to tri (last season) and signed up for a 3-mile OWS this season.
Farthest I've swam is a .9mile Oly...

Intrigued by the total immersion (TI) swim style, which features the 2-beat kick and the promise of swimming forever w/ minimal effort.
But I struggle w/ the mechanics of 2-beat.
And reading the swimsmooth blog, they caution against 2-beat, unless you're already an accoplished swimmer.
(I'm certainly not).

Curious how many ST'ers, and especially AOS swimmers, incorporate 2-beat kick into their distance swims?
Last edited by: spookini: Apr 15, 17 8:52
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Re: 2-beat kick for progressing swimmer -- yes or no? [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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Don't do the TI method, I did it years ago to help with my distance swimming. Once you learn it it'll be a hard habit to break. The $500 I spent to learn it during a weekend clinic I should I spent on deck coaching. It took me what seemed years to break the habits that basically took me a weekend to learn. This is all my account, I never really swam before. Passed whatever swim testes I had to do in the Army which are relatively easy but that was it. With TI I was able to swim forever buy not fast. Look up Dan's (Slowman) guppy challenge workouts, they include some instruction, start with that. The slowtwitch fish will chime in, listen to them, I did/do and it's worked wonders on my swimming.
Last edited by: mike s: Apr 15, 17 9:33
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Re: 2-beat kick for progressing swimmer -- yes or no? [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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If you can achieve a good body position (high in the water) with a 2-beat kick then it's ideal IMO. Mechanics are simple. There are plenty of progression videos on youtube if you look around a bit. That said, don't expect to swim 3 miles effortlessly (unless you swam in HS, College, and logged countless hours in the pool).

I think the biggest problem with TI is that they make it seem like swimming fast can be "effortless". I get that mindset makes swimming less intimidating to a beginner but it does them a disservice when they don't see significant progress after X months. Swimming fast is hard work. Don't kid yourself.
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Re: 2-beat kick for progressing swimmer -- yes or no? [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not a 2-beat guy, for any distance stuff I'll do a 4 or 6 beat kick. Either are sustainable forbdistance swimming, but the trick is to kick compact and easy. The kick is mostly there to counterbalance the arms in distance swimming.

TI is fine for what it is, I guess, but it's not really a way to learn to swim fast.

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Re: 2-beat kick for progressing swimmer -- yes or no? [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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I use a 2-beat kick in 90% of my swimming (everything except all-out sprints), but I've been swimming for a long time. If it doesn't come naturally to you, then don't force it. I see plenty of good swimmers who use a 6-beat kick in distance swims. I think the more important thing is to use a kick that best supports your body position in the water.

I'm not familiar with TI but it sounds like a bad idea...
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Re: 2-beat kick for progressing swimmer -- yes or no? [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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my two pennies...
AOS swimmer, and worked hard to be FOP in my AG. I have terrible plantar flexion from broken ankles (multiple times, motocross), I couldn't tell you how many beats I kick - enough to aid in good position and timing (it seems), not much for propulsion; pretty ideal for distance swimming. I'd guess I go six beats most of the time, but they are "little" kicks.

Try hard to feel smooth and streamlined - while going fast.

enjoy the journey

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________
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Re: 2-beat kick for progressing swimmer -- yes or no? [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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I am an AOS starting about 9 years ago. I took a TI clinic early on but could never do a 2 beat kick and keep the legs up. I think TI was beneficial to me when I started, but I won't go to any swim clinic now if the instructors are TI certified.

About 4 months ago, I purposefully started working towards a 2 beat kick. I've fixed enough other flaws over the years and decided to save energy on the swim. I'm improving but it works best for me in wetsuit swims where I'm getting some lift in the legs. In the pool I struggled with it at first but it's getting better every week. I found that my right leg wasn't kicking as naturally as my left and it has taken time to smooth it out. But for sprints I tend to drop back to 4-6 beats.
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Re: 2-beat kick for progressing swimmer -- yes or no? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Two beat works well if using a wetsuit.
If I use a wetsuit, I either shorten up my stroke, less catchup, mainly salt water and rough, or drop back to a very lazy 2 beat.
Otherwise my feet are flapping in the air.

Normal distance swimming for me is six beat with pronounced two beat and soft other four.
Faster swimming and sprinting for longer is six beat and for flat out 50m is 8 beat with less body roll.

Use whatever works for you and the distances/ costume you are wearing.

I'm in Australia, so until joining this forum, never heard of total immersion, so cannot comment on their teachings.
Which is strange because I have been accused of being a proponent on these forums even though I don't even know what it is.

But as has been said, do whatever kick you need to get good body position, unless you are going very fast, the kick is not propulsive and energy sent to the legs is better directed to the upper body with the bonus that all those resting leg muscles get to metabolise circulating lactate for you.
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Re: 2-beat kick for progressing swimmer -- yes or no? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
I am an AOS starting about 9 years ago. I took a TI clinic early on but could never do a 2 beat kick and keep the legs up. I think TI was beneficial to me when I started, but I won't go to any swim clinic now if the instructors are TI certified.

About 4 months ago, I purposefully started working towards a 2 beat kick. I've fixed enough other flaws over the years and decided to save energy on the swim. I'm improving but it works best for me in wetsuit swims where I'm getting some lift in the legs. In the pool I struggled with it at first but it's getting better every week. I found that my right leg wasn't kicking as naturally as my left and it has taken time to smooth it out. But for sprints I tend to drop back to 4-6 beats.

I'm in the same boat: wetsuit with a swim over 750m I use a 2-beat kick. Non-westsuit I have a soft 6 beat kick.
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Re: 2-beat kick for progressing swimmer -- yes or no? [kells] [ In reply to ]
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kells wrote:
I'm not familiar with TI but it sounds like a bad idea...

From what I can tell tell, TI is 2-beat, but the timing is reversed.. you kick on same side as your stroke, at end of the pull. The kick is there to rotate/propel you into the next stroke.

Problem is, the guy on most YouTube videos I've seen is a Japanese swimmer with perfect body balance; he only needs a quick toe flick to get into his next stroke. I'm more of a sinking legs guy... I get one kick into TI and my other leg is already too deep to keep time.

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll stick to 6-beat and work on making it more compact. The other stuff in TI (using head and upper body position to raise the legs) has been helpful - especially since my initial head position was way too high.
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Re: 2-beat kick for progressing swimmer -- yes or no? [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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spookini wrote:
I'm new to tri (last season) and signed up for a 3-mile OWS this season.
Farthest I've swam is a .9mile Oly...

Intrigued by the total immersion (TI) swim style, which features the 2-beat kick and the promise of swimming forever w/ minimal effort.
But I struggle w/ the mechanics of 2-beat.
And reading the swimsmooth blog, they caution against 2-beat, unless you're already an accoplished swimmer.
(I'm certainly not).

Curious how many ST'ers, and especially AOS swimmers, incorporate 2-beat kick into their distance swims?

I do swim 2 beat, as it came naturally and I am a guy who swims arm-heavy anyway.

Wouldn't attempt it unless your technique is already very good and without flaws.
6 beat gives you more stability in the water and improves your alignment.
If 2 beat doesn't come naturally, forcing it can cause all kinds of issues.
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