Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 10:45

Post #26 of 46 (2545 views)

But, the transition area with racks dropping our bikes was a joke.

The roadway coming back into transition was SO bad with huge pot holes and speed bumps I just about went over the front of my bike.

The RD to not have warming tents, ...

For the race to have tell folks the real correct water temperature.

For the RD to not get the final race times correct which mess up rankings.

Are these not his issues?

SO lets go through this "issues. The RD did not drop the racks(I'm guessing here) someone came in and knocked them over. Now they could have been really poorly planned/set up, but did just one or two racks fall, or all of them?

The RD has no control over the roadway when it concerns speed bumps or pot holes. If you almost crashed on one of those, it is entirely your fault. Just like every other ride you do outside, you watch the road and ride what is in front of you.

I have never in my life done a race with warming tents, if you have count yourself lucky I guess. But to think they should be required, should I expect air conditioned transition rooms at all the hotter than hell races I have hated to do?

Just about every RD I have ever heard espouse the water temp before a race has gotten it wrong in the hotter than it is direction. When I get in before the race I know what the temp is, butt cold is butt cold whether it is 53/56/61. I don't treat any of those temps differently, and you all should not either..

And yes, there should be correct times, usually the fault of the timing company. Not sure what HITS uses for timing, they are so cheap they may have tried to do it themselves, In which case it would be their fault.

Anymore things you like me to clear up for you Dave?? (-;

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 10:58

Post #27 of 46 (2535 views)

Dave awesome, as I was assuming it was all 1 day. Now if this only happened on Sat and during the half/full, 158 people officially finished. 30 got sick. So 16% of the people that raced that day got "hypothermia".

ETA: I'm not on the side of the race or the athletes. Whether this race was going to be an triathlon w/ the swim or a duathlon w/ a run first, people were going to be COLD. The side I'm on is to be smart. IF a race goes off in conditions like this, take more time in T1 to add clothing. That's a no brainer.

ETA # 2- im not unfaulting the race. I'd have assumed thought it would be changed but of course my guess is, the same percentage would be bitching about their race ruined. But beyond that I think you should be smart. Not putting on some kind of wind breaker in that environment will cause some suffering.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Apr 16, 17 11:13

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [monty] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 11:09

Post #28 of 46 (2525 views)

monty wrote:

But, the transition area with racks dropping our bikes was a joke.

The roadway coming back into transition was SO bad with huge pot holes and speed bumps I just about went over the front of my bike.

The RD to not have warming tents, ...

For the race to have tell folks the real correct water temperature.

For the RD to not get the final race times correct which mess up rankings.

Are these not his issues?

SO lets go through this "issues. The RD did not drop the racks(I'm guessing here) someone came in and knocked them over. Now they could have been really poorly planned/set up, but did just one or two racks fall, or all of them?

The RD has no control over the roadway when it concerns speed bumps or pot holes. If you almost crashed on one of those, it is entirely your fault. Just like every other ride you do outside, you watch the road and ride what is in front of you.

I have never in my life done a race with warming tents, if you have count yourself lucky I guess. But to think they should be required, should I expect air conditioned transition rooms at all the hotter than hell races I have hated to do?

Just about every RD I have ever heard espouse the water temp before a race has gotten it wrong in the hotter than it is direction. When I get in before the race I know what the temp is, butt cold is butt cold whether it is 53/56/61. I don't treat any of those temps differently, and you all should not either..

And yes, there should be correct times, usually the fault of the timing company. Not sure what HITS uses for timing, they are so cheap they may have tried to do it themselves, In which case it would be their fault.

Anymore things you like me to clear up for you Dave?? (-;

They oversold the race so rather than everyone having the HITS bike rack, half the Olympic field had this junky made bike racks. Most fell down at some put during the event dropping all the bikes.

Sorry, the RD is to have a safe bike course, or do not put on the race, let alone saying it meets USAT standards.

Yea, you raced naked through the snow. An RD is responsible to provide safe conditions to the weakest racers, not just the studs.

The timing results being messed up is 100% the RD. Timing company can only put in the wave start times the RD follows, and tells them to use. When the RD told me who cares, the wave groupings are okay, well, great,
just do not submit the results to USAT.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 11:13

Post #29 of 46 (2523 views)

B_Doughtie wrote:

Dave awesome, as I was assuming it was all 1 day. Now if this only happened on Sat and during the half/full, 158 people officially finished. 30 got sick. So 16% of the people that raced that day got "hypothermia".

ETA: I'm not on the side of the race or the athletes. Whether this race was going to be an triathlon w/ the swim or a duathlon w/ a run first, people were going to be COLD. The side I'm on is to be smart. IF a race goes off in conditions like this, take more time in T1 to add clothing. That's a no brainer.

Total agree. But when the race tells folks the wrong water temperature.

When a race has a set of total junk bike races that keep falling.

When I race clearly has oversold their transition space. (Having bikes laid out all over the ground and up on the barriers, well, if they had officials, would have all been DQed.

When a race cannot get the correct wave start times to the timing company such that the results are wrong and should not be submitted to USAT for rankings.

When there were not enough folks helping on Saturday at aid stations.

Oh well, so easy for folks who were not at the event to say all this stuff and more were no big deal. Wow.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 11:17

Post #30 of 46 (2519 views)

Dave again I'm not unfaulting the race. What I'm saying is there is no difference getting on bike wet in 37 or 45 degrees. You are going to be cold. 8 degrees at that cold threshold is going to create issues if all you wear is a race kit. ETA: then add that it rained?!?!, you are going to suffer if you haven't worn anything to protect you from the elements.

All the other issues I'm not debating you about. If that's what happened w transition that's poor logistics. What I'm debating is for both the race and athlete to be smart in 40 degree weather. You would have been cold whether swim was cancelled or not on that bike. So it's on you the athlete to be prepared for that.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Apr 16, 17 11:22

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 11:29

Post #31 of 46 (2507 views)

Oh well, so easy for folks who were not at the event to say all this stuff and more were no big deal. Wow. //

By folks I assume you mean me Dave. And I did not say "all this stuff" was not the RD's responsibility, just some of it. Sorry Dave, you are responsible for speed bumps that are built into the road. You are responsible for keeping yourself warm on a butt cold day, the RD cannot snap his fingers and change the weather. I actually applaud them in actually having the swim and not cancelling it. No one cancels the run when it is 105 outside, and that is a lot more dangerous. I think because you got butt hurt on your ranking because of the screwed up timing, you are letting your negative emotions cloud your otherwise take care of yourself attitude.

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [monty] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 11:39

Post #32 of 46 (2499 views)

monty wrote:

Oh well, so easy for folks who were not at the event to say all this stuff and more were no big deal. Wow. //

By folks I assume you mean me Dave. And I did not say "all this stuff" was not the RD's responsibility, just some of it. Sorry Dave, you are responsible for speed bumps that are built into the road. You are responsible for keeping yourself warm on a butt cold day, the RD cannot snap his fingers and change the weather. I actually applaud them in actually having the swim and not cancelling it. No one cancels the run when it is 105 outside, and that is a lot more dangerous. I think because you got butt hurt on your ranking because of the screwed up timing, you are letting your negative emotions cloud your otherwise take care of yourself attitude.

Nope, I had a bad race, so who cares

I DO care about an event and the safety, or lack of, it provides to athletes, many are my friends. Speed bumps I agree with, but huge pot holes, which are dangerous and make the speed bumps worse, I guess we have a different expectation for safety at an event.

Again, never said folks should not have used more clothes. But if the RD tells you the water is 62, when it really is 56, well, that changes what things you might do.
If you are not told the correct air temperature, again, you might not have done the right things in clothes. As I said, because I knew how cold it was, I put on gloves,
and my T1 time shows it.

If this were an ITU race, their safety rules would have canceled the swim. I guess they have no idea what they are talking about, right. For me, the swim was fine, since I knew the water temp, had been swimming in cold water before the race, and was fully prepared for it. You are not hearing me complain about the cold, we all knew, and I blew it not putting a jacket on, that I had brought with me but left in the car.

It was all the other stuff I have written about.

Sorry, you just do not get it.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 11:41

Post #33 of 46 (2496 views)

B_Doughtie wrote:

Dave again I'm not unfaulting the race. What I'm saying is there is no difference getting on bike wet in 37 or 45 degrees. You are going to be cold. 8 degrees at that cold threshold is going to create issues if all you wear is a race kit. ETA: then add that it rained?!?!, you are going to suffer if you haven't worn anything to protect you from the elements.

All the other issues I'm not debating you about. If that's what happened w transition that's poor logistics. What I'm debating is for both the race and athlete to be smart in 40 degree weather. You would have been cold whether swim was cancelled or not on that bike. So it's on you the athlete to be prepared for that.

I am not at all defending the athletes, myself included, for not putting on enough cloths for the conditions. Just, IMO, the correct temps are supposed to be given.

And then all the other stuff.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 11:45

Post #34 of 46 (2493 views)

And then all the other stuff.

------

I'll answer with an H2Oism

"All these people complaining about races, good luck putting on your own races"

ETA: I get some of the issues you are bringing up. Sounded like shoddy race management on certain issues, but some of the safety concerns you raise, I would object with. No biggie.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Apr 16, 17 11:47

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 12:13

Post #35 of 46 (2472 views)

Yikes that's rough!

My least favorite swim of all the tris I do is the USAP local half moon bay triathlon in NorCal

Water temp is 53-54, air temp in the high 40s, and the gun goes off well before 7a

In various years I've tried everything from my surf suit (4/3), with hood/booties and I felt ridiculous, to a swim specific suit (3/2) where my hands/feet are numb by the finish. My feet usually don't warm up until the run lol

Which is weird because I'll surf all winter long in the same water in a 4/3 +hood/boots and the water temp can get down to 48 or so

I have no idea what the solution is other than a 5/3 I guess, eg a diving suit lol

//Noob triathlete//bike commuter//ex-swimmer//slower than you

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [Freddo] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 12:56

Post #36 of 46 (2453 views)

Get in the water and acclimate. Double cap. Bring shoes to the swim start for the run back to T1. Keep wetsuit on until just before T1 so you can warm up running in it. Spend 15 seconds putting on socks pre-rubbed with bodyglide so they slide right onto your wet cold feet.

Also, Half Moon Bay always has that kiddie pool with warm water for you to step into on the way back to T1 if you don't wear shoes out to swim start. HITS could learn from them.

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [Freddo] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 13:40

Post #37 of 46 (2437 views)

Freddo wrote:

Yikes that's rough!

My least favorite swim of all the tris I do is the USAP local half moon bay triathlon in NorCal

Water temp is 53-54, air temp in the high 40s, and the gun goes off well before 7a

In various years I've tried everything from my surf suit (4/3), with hood/booties and I felt ridiculous, to a swim specific suit (3/2) where my hands/feet are numb by the finish. My feet usually don't warm up until the run lol

Which is weird because I'll surf all winter long in the same water in a 4/3 +hood/boots and the water temp can get down to 48 or so

I have no idea what the solution is other than a 5/3 I guess, eg a diving suit lol

I hope to do the Aquathlon next Sunday with USAP in Half moon bay. Yep, cold water.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [seeyouincourt] [ In reply to ]

SallyShortyPnts

Apr 16, 17 14:01

Post #38 of 46 (2428 views)

seeyouincourt wrote:

Spend 15 seconds putting on socks pre-rubbed with bodyglide so they slide right onto your wet cold feet.

What I learned on Slowtwitch today. Great idea, I may do that on a non-freezing swim as well!

DFL > DNF > DNS

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [seeyouincourt] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 17 14:46

Post #39 of 46 (2398 views)

seeyouincourt wrote:

Get in the water and acclimate. Double cap. Bring shoes to the swim start for the run back to T1. Keep wetsuit on until just before T1 so you can warm up running in it. Spend 15 seconds putting on socks pre-rubbed with bodyglide so they slide right onto your wet cold feet.

Also, Half Moon Bay always has that kiddie pool with warm water for you to step into on the way back to T1 if you don't wear shoes out to swim start. HITS could learn from them.

Okay, just got back from a lake swim in the rain. I am freezing still. But, if I need to acclimate before half moon bay, at least I tried.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [monty] [ In reply to ]

Apr 17, 17 17:09

Post #40 of 46 (2227 views)

Here is a picture of the bike racks I was talking about.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Last edited by: h2ofun: Apr 17, 17 17:10

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Apr 17, 17 17:22

Post #41 of 46 (2217 views)

h2ofun wrote:

B_Doughtie wrote:

Just so we are clear, your air temp numbers are as all over the place as you claim their's to be. You stated earlier in thread it was air temp of 37, then claim wife said 32 now, etc. Also if we are wanting to look at facts and "safety" issues, this problem happened to 3% of the participants in this event, if it was reported that 30 were treated. Earlier link HITS said they handled 15 "hypothermia" cases, which would make it a 1.5 % issue.

So let's just be careful when we make claims about safety if you don't mind.

I am just giving the data points as I have them. The water temp I had was measured, and what they told folks was flat out wrong.

I just gave my wifes screen shot as a data point. Many said their cars, etc said about 37. It was way below 45, and somewhere in the 30's take you pick.

30 folks were from the half/full race sat. So, how many were in the race Sat?

Bottom line this was the worse race I have done in 20 years. And to have the RD blame the racers and not deal with all the issues he owned, well, take you side.

Didn't you do Tahoe in its first year? Air temp in the morning was easily colder than that, although the lake was around 60F I believe.

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [spudone] [ In reply to ]

Apr 17, 17 18:09

Post #42 of 46 (2195 views)

spudone wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

B_Doughtie wrote:

Just so we are clear, your air temp numbers are as all over the place as you claim their's to be. You stated earlier in thread it was air temp of 37, then claim wife said 32 now, etc. Also if we are wanting to look at facts and "safety" issues, this problem happened to 3% of the participants in this event, if it was reported that 30 were treated. Earlier link HITS said they handled 15 "hypothermia" cases, which would make it a 1.5 % issue.

So let's just be careful when we make claims about safety if you don't mind.

I am just giving the data points as I have them. The water temp I had was measured, and what they told folks was flat out wrong.

I just gave my wifes screen shot as a data point. Many said their cars, etc said about 37. It was way below 45, and somewhere in the 30's take you pick.

30 folks were from the half/full race sat. So, how many were in the race Sat?

Bottom line this was the worse race I have done in 20 years. And to have the RD blame the racers and not deal with all the issues he owned, well, take you side.

Didn't you do Tahoe in its first year? Air temp in the morning was easily colder than that, although the lake was around 60F I believe.

Yep, I did IMLT 2013. Air temp in the morning was in the 20's. Water temp like 64 away from shore. I took 25 minutes in transition to put on more clothes than I have ever worn. I still had hypothermia on the bike I believe since I had to stop and pee like 10 times, and was not drinking water.

For me, the issue at HITS was not about the cold, since I knew what was going to happen. I did blow it not wearing a jacket which I had brought but left in the car.
Luckily I put on gloves or I never would have finished the bike.

So many issues though. Telling folks the water was 62 when it was 56 is unacceptable for a USAT sanctioned race.

To over sell the race and have a disaster transition area.

To have not gotten the correct wave start times which means the finish times for most are wrong means the race results should not be used for USAT rankings.
(It is possible this mistake could make my ranking higher, so the issue is not about me, it is about they are unfair to everyone in the race, and all athletes in the
USAT ranking data base.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Apr 17, 17 21:20

Post #43 of 46 (2144 views)

h2ofun wrote:

spudone wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

B_Doughtie wrote:

Just so we are clear, your air temp numbers are as all over the place as you claim their's to be. You stated earlier in thread it was air temp of 37, then claim wife said 32 now, etc. Also if we are wanting to look at facts and "safety" issues, this problem happened to 3% of the participants in this event, if it was reported that 30 were treated. Earlier link HITS said they handled 15 "hypothermia" cases, which would make it a 1.5 % issue.

So let's just be careful when we make claims about safety if you don't mind.

I am just giving the data points as I have them. The water temp I had was measured, and what they told folks was flat out wrong.

I just gave my wifes screen shot as a data point. Many said their cars, etc said about 37. It was way below 45, and somewhere in the 30's take you pick.

30 folks were from the half/full race sat. So, how many were in the race Sat?

Bottom line this was the worse race I have done in 20 years. And to have the RD blame the racers and not deal with all the issues he owned, well, take you side.

Didn't you do Tahoe in its first year? Air temp in the morning was easily colder than that, although the lake was around 60F I believe.

Yep, I did IMLT 2013. Air temp in the morning was in the 20's. Water temp like 64 away from shore. I took 25 minutes in transition to put on more clothes than I have ever worn. I still had hypothermia on the bike I believe since I had to stop and pee like 10 times, and was not drinking water.

For me, the issue at HITS was not about the cold, since I knew what was going to happen. I did blow it not wearing a jacket which I had brought but left in the car.
Luckily I put on gloves or I never would have finished the bike.

So many issues though. Telling folks the water was 62 when it was 56 is unacceptable for a USAT sanctioned race.

To over sell the race and have a disaster transition area.

To have not gotten the correct wave start times which means the finish times for most are wrong means the race results should not be used for USAT rankings.
(It is possible this mistake could make my ranking higher, so the issue is not about me, it is about they are unfair to everyone in the race, and all athletes in the
USAT ranking data base.

Oh boy, I am just gonna listen for the loudest complainer at HMB next weekend and then walk up and just say:

"Hi, you must be Dave!"

You should really stop racing those ghetto races if I gives you so much chagrin.
And only race ITU or WTC or whoever gives you the full catered race experience.

I am with Monty:
You appear high strung and entitled. But I give to you that you haven't gone through the grassroots phase of Triathlon (admittedly they were less $$), but there were much bigger "issues", and people just rolled with the punches...such as a suddenly open course with heavy car/truck traffic or potholes or whatever.

You wouldn't have stuck with the sport back then, and nobody would have missed it.

Last edited by: windschatten: Apr 17, 17 21:27

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [Freddo] [ In reply to ]

Apr 17, 17 21:56

Post #44 of 46 (2130 views)

Freddo wrote:

Yikes that's rough!
My least favorite swim of all the tris I do is the USAP local half moon bay triathlon in NorCal

Water temp is 53-54, air temp in the high 40s, and the gun goes off well before 7a

In various years I've tried everything from my surf suit (4/3), with hood/booties and I felt ridiculous, to a swim specific suit (3/2) where my hands/feet are numb by the finish. My feet usually don't warm up until the run lol

Which is weird because I'll surf all winter long in the same water in a 4/3 +hood/boots and the water temp can get down to 48 or so

I have no idea what the solution is other than a 5/3 I guess, eg a diving suit lol

http://www.surf-forecast.com/breaks/Pillar-Point/seatemp

Water temp is apparently 48 right now which according to the weather guy on tv was because current was moving down from Bodega where it was also 48. I will probably skip this year. That race is just miserably cold.

_________________________________
Fit Endurance Coaching - Head Coach|Facebook
USAT L1 Coach | BikeFit Certified Fitter | Contributing Writer - Triathlete Magazine | ROKA

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Apr 17, 17 23:05

Post #45 of 46 (2103 views)

In my day we swam with the polar bears and both laps were uphill. We knew it, so we slathered with lard and warmed our frostbite by the fire.

Am I doing it right?

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

Re: One hospitalized, about 30 with symptoms of hypothermia at HITS Napa triathlon [JustinNorCal] [ In reply to ]

Apr 18, 17 0:13

Post #46 of 46 (2087 views)

Huh, the noaa buoy outside half moon bay/offshore is reading 54*F right now

SF and Santa Cruz and Monterey readings similar

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/...ge.php?station=46012

Hoping it's closer to 54, if it's 48 I guess I'm going booties and hood with my 3/2 suit and hoping for the best and waiting my turn at the kiddie-pool//spa spot that's halfway to T1

//Noob triathlete//bike commuter//ex-swimmer//slower than you

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