For most people in the 1:15-1:45/100 yd pace range, each turn results in about 1 sec faster per 100; assuming you're swimming in a standard 25 yd pool, about 4 sec/100 yd faster, or 1:26/100 yd in OW. For 100 m, add 10% or say about 1:35 per 100 m for one single all-out 100 m in OW.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I've found that my pool and OWS times for 1500 are roughly the same. The pool has the advantage of wall pushoffs, no sighting, and no swimming a longer path; but OWS has the advantage of a wetsuit.

Yes, turns make you faster. That's why people swim slower in longer pools for the same distance.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
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Turns should make you faster... every single SCM (25m pool) world record is faster than the LCM (50m pool) .

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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Good turns are worth more than a wetsuit when comparing Short Course 1500m/1650y times to OW.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Well except if you flip-turn like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn5Z0-D81Lw

Congratulations with your progress. I did not make that progress in 10 years since I started, which you did in 1 year.

Anyway, turns make a difference. Even a weak swimmer as me is noticably faster in a 25m pool than in a 50m pool. And I do not do flip turns, just "normal" turns. I think I win at every turn rather 2 than 1 s.

When you push off the wall, you're engaging the most powerful muscles in your body, and doing so against an immovable object. Your velocity peak on a length should be at the moment your feet leave the wall. With good streamline technique, you should be able to sustain, for several yards, a glide velocity that's greater than the velocity you can swim. That gain more than offsets any loss from the actual flip itself. The general rule of thumb for converting long course meters times to short course meters times for freestyle is to subtract 0.8 seconds per extra turn you get in the short course race.


As for pool speed vs open water speed, I've never done an open water 100m sprint. But on longer swims, I'm consistently ~12% slower in a fresh water lake, without a wetsuit, than I am in a 25 yard pool. For a HIM length swim, I can hold ~1:19 per hundred yards in a 25 yard pool, while in open water my pace is ~1:29. Approximately a quarter of that difference is the walls. The rest is traffic, sighting, occasional zig-zagging, waves, etc.

As for trying to correlate a single 100 time trial to a longer effort, there are too many variables to draw any conclusions. But to give you some perspective, my second 50 split of a 100 free race (gives you an idea of 100 pace without the advantage of a block start) is consistently in the mid 29's. So, from a wall push off, I would expect to be able to swim a max effort 100 in around 59 flat. So my 1.2 mile open water pace is ~150% of my single 100 SCY pool pace.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

How can you measure so accurately the distance/speed in open water since Gps watches do not seem to work accurately while swimming?

I don't own a GPS watch. I do it the old fashioned way (race distance/elapsed time).

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Great pace! Obviously swimming in a race is much different because of water conditions, other athletes, and how straight you swim. :)

Well but the race distance generally only has an accuracy within let's say 10% if you follow the discussions afterwards always.

Seen lots of those. My son is 10 and did 3 years Summer League :l less of that on his new team ☺.



I can manage a decent turn.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

First off, congrats on your time. I am surprised at all of the responses that walls help. They have always hurt me. Although I suppose it depends how good you are coming off the wall - which I am not. I regularly track my times with 2/3/4k TTs in the pool and my pace is consistently 2-3 sec slower than what I do in open water.

Curious here... was that 1:22 an all out swim? If so you can't translate that into your predictive 100s on a race for obvious reasons. Was the 1:22 on the latter part of a workout?

Probably the best predictor would be a 500 time trial (race like effort) on tired arms.Average 100s and see how it differs from the 1:22.

Nevertheless... impressive 100!

Yep, the 1:22 was toward the end of workout, but was an all-out "hope I don't puke in front of the cute blonde lifeguard" effort.
Certainly not a sustainable pace for me, not even for 200yd let alone a sprint course or longer.

But I just started last July and back then couldn't swim 50yd free without reverting to breaststroke after 25yd

I know I've progressed since then, just curious to find out by how much.
First sprint tri is in 3wks, so will find out then.
To be fair, don't know if I can hold freestyle for full sprint distance yet.

What's the swim distance of your upcoming race? Sprints seemed to have a lot of variability in that area. For open water, I've seen anywhere from 400m to 1000m.

Whatever it is, you should be able to swim it all freestyle if you can knock out a 1:22 100. It's just a matter of knowing what pace you can sustain, and practicing that. You've got three weeks to work on it. With the distance, I could give you a ball park pace target based off your 100 time.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Hehe I've done quite a few of those myself! :=)

Its still good progress. Keep you repeats short and do lots.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

1/3 mile. Maybe I'd be able to hold a 1:45 pace...

So a race distance of ~600 yards. Have you tried a 600 straight in the pool?

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"