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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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chrisb12 wrote:
r0bh wrote:
The money went far enough to pay 100k to the winner

if the prize money wasn't there neither would be the athletes or the interest. For this one event in it's infancy, testing the market and trying to spread the hype as far as possible to promote sustainability in future events was the goal. As I said previously do we actually know for a fact that no athlete was tested over the weekend or are we just going off hearsay to try to create extra negativity. Every athlete on an OOCT programme expects to be tested any day, the weekend would have been no different.

1. The race was sanctioned by Triathlon Australia, which means it has to abide by the WADA Code. Ergo, if there was testing, the results would bind the parties to all sports sanctioned by WADA. So, if there was testing, and if there was a positive, that athlete would be banned universally.

2. As a result of sanctioning, ASADA *could have* showed up to do testing. But why should ASADA bear the cost of sending a DCO(s) and the cost of testing, which is typically about $1000/test for a complete urine test with EPO option. Even without EPO option, it's still close to $500 per test. In the same way that USADA *can* show up and test at any USAT race, everybody knows that they aren't showing up unless they are paid to show up. To deny this reality is simply being deliberately obtuse.

Unless you pay for testing, it's not going to happen. This is just a fact. And it's obvious to everyone.

3. Yes, there's a budget that has to be accounted for. As I pointed out on twitter, maybe instead of paying $30,000 for a cast bronze winners statue, they could have taken that same $30,000 and used it cover comprehensive in-competition testing for the majority of that field over the course of the three day event. $30,000 would have covered (roughly) two DCOs (travel, time, accom, etc) plus probably 30 complete menu urine tests without EPO.

The idea that drug testing was left off because of "budget concerns" is simply ridiculous.

4. The ITU's own problems - and it certainly has numerous ones - have no bearing on the truth of the criticisms levied by Marisol.

Bottom line, for an event of this magnitude, there's just no reasonable argument against having drug testing. And Chris McCormack did in fact confirm that there was no drug testing at the event.

However, it is worth noting that the Island House - with it's $500,000 prize purse - also did not have drug testing either last year or the year prior. This is no less troubling, and yet it does seem clear that because McCormack is not involved with Island House (and because the gender issue is not present there), they are getting a free pass.

When two of the three biggest paydays in the sport are being given out without any sort of drug testing in place, I think that's a very real cause for concern. And I'm glad that Marisol wrote and prompted the discussion.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Island House also gets a pass because nobody wants to criticize an event they hope to get invited to. And even those who know they won't get invited don't want to be spoil sports for all of the cool kids' vacation in paradise. So kudos to you for discussing this issue and pointing out that the biggest paydays in the sport have no drug testing.
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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Somewhere 2 billionaires are sitting on the beach laughing at the power they have in this sport. If it's a game of chicken triathlon wants to play, I'm sure the billionaires could care less. They can just as easily take their money elsewhere.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Drug testing, we have no real drug testing in our sport or any other. It is just enough to allow some folks to be fouled.

Folks need to get a life and just enjoy our sport. There will always be folks who want to "cheat". But on your death bed,
will it really matter?

Our world is just being way way to snowflaked.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Couple of observations:

All the athletes there are in the testing pools of ITU and/or WTC. So they are getting tested (we trust) somewhere somehow leading into and on other side. Lets be fair, most Ironman have nomore testing than Super League.

Yes i am for equality and Macca's excuse of pregnacies is embarrassing. But he has promised its coming. Lets see.

Last, i live in Penticton and nothing is making me dislike triathlon more than the constant belly aching, infighting, bitching here about triathlon. The sport has moved on little city between the lakes. Its not what it once was. Get over it. And thats not good. Im the demographic target and find myself looking into ultras, mtb, gravel grinders as some of my next adventures.

What i am reading on forums and media re: super league feels the same on a much grander scale. A better blog might have started with "i called Macca and we had a chat. We discussed testing and equality and i expressed my concerns listed.....and look forward to supporting super league in these areas as high tides raises all boats in our sport..."

Point being, it feels amateur ... But WTF do i know i guess.

@rhyspencer
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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rhys wrote:
Couple of observations:

All the athletes there are in the testing pools of ITU and/or WTC. So they are getting tested (we trust) somewhere somehow leading into and on other side. Lets be fair, most Ironman have nomore testing than Super League.

Yes i am for equality and Macca's excuse of pregnacies is embarrassing. But he has promised its coming. Lets see.

Last, i live in Penticton and nothing is making me dislike triathlon more than the constant belly aching, infighting, bitching here about triathlon. The sport has moved on little city between the lakes. Its not what it once was. Get over it. And thats not good. Im the demographic target and find myself looking into ultras, mtb, gravel grinders as some of my next adventures.

What i am reading on forums and media re: super league feels the same on a much grander scale. A better blog might have started with "i called Macca and we had a chat. We discussed testing and equality and i expressed my concerns listed.....and look forward to supporting super league in these areas as high tides raises all boats in our sport..."

Point being, it feels amateur ... But WTF do i know i guess.

Totally agree

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Our world is just being way way to snowflaked.

I agree, Dave! What incredible snowflakes Macca and his fanboys are. It's like they'll melt if they hear any criticism. Every race director I know expects complaints as part of the job. I know a place in DC where Macca could find a safe space...oh, except that he's not man enough to go back to the states and face his accuser.
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Somewhere 2 billionaires are sitting on the beach laughing at the power they have in this sport. If it's a game of chicken triathlon wants to play, I'm sure the billionaires could care less. They can just as easily take their money elsewhere.

And if that's their attitude, then triathlon will be much better off without them.
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
stringcheese wrote:

My two cents.........No drug testing. No women. Chris McCormack.

I'd rather watch curling.

x2.

Though curling is actually fanstastic to watch.. I love the comment about women's triathlon needing to "be able to stand on its own two feet," which is a bit rich given this whole effort is about subsidizing production and building a nascent market in anticipation of a time when it *might* become self-sustaining....e.g. if we held men to the "own two feet" standard before showing anything, there'd be a blank screen.

You missed the point of my post. What I'm saying is that combining the two together is not sustainable because it won't work for tv. Separating them and holding them at different times and probably locations allows it to be screened separately. I'm all for equality, but focussing on equality without looking at things without a commercial lense will get you nowhere. Tell me what would've happened if they actually ran both men's and women's at the same time, and as a result couldn't get any television deals due to the time commitment required, and could only stream online? Exactly how many big name sponsors do you think would sign up for online streaming presence only? If no big name sponsors sign on how sustainable does this equitable triathlon event become? It really pi$$es me off when people automatically jump to the sexist call. Yes sometimes things are sexist, but other times, including my comment, it is about something else entirely and other people through their own bias take it there
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [rock] [ In reply to ]
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rock wrote:
trail wrote:
stringcheese wrote:

My two cents.........No drug testing. No women. Chris McCormack.

I'd rather watch curling.

x2.

Though curling is actually fanstastic to watch.. I love the comment about women's triathlon needing to "be able to stand on its own two feet,

You missed the point of my post. What I'm saying is that combining the two together is not sustainable because it won't work for tv. Separating them and holding them at different times and probably locations allows it to be screened separately. I'm all for equality, but focussing on equality without looking at things without a commercial lense will get you nowhere. Tell me what would've happened if they actually ran both men's and women's at the same time, and as a result couldn't get any television deals due to the time commitment required, and could only stream online? Exactly how many big name sponsors do you think would sign up for online streaming presence only? If no big name sponsors sign on how sustainable does this equitable triathlon event become? It really pi$$es me off when people automatically jump to the sexist call. Yes sometimes things are sexist, but other times, including my comment, it is about something else entirely and other people through their own bias take it there

Holy crap, someone finally talking some common sense.
I agree so strongly with what you have to say here.
I would just like to add that I thought the production , the venue, the athletes, everything about Super League was fantastic. I hope there were many others who enjoyed it too. I have had a few comments from non triathlon fans who stumbled across the broadcast on fox TV and enjoyed it enough to tune in again the next day to see more. They now even know names of their favourite athletes from the weekend. This is what it is all about, creating interest and bringing the sport to more ppl.
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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Eh I have different view on SL and IH then I guess others.

Ever watched MLB all star game? They'll groove pitches down the middle for players or will take out their best player just because. Same with NHL hockey. It's made for tv. Tiger Woods has an made for tv event that only invites something like 20-30 golfers to his tournament in Bahamas.

Now I know SL is trying to become a "series" of events but I felt this and IH is nothing more than made up races for entertainment (Its a huge paycheck for the top pros', GJ's main or one of her main sponsors). So did I care that no one was drug tested? No because this is
a made up event. Hell the last day they shortened the bike to fit the telecast time frame. Ali Brownlee was the most uninterested I've ever seen but it didn't hurt that he got what $~200k in appearance fees to have that performance. Of course he's reigning double Olympic champion so my guess is his motivation at the current moment is just not there.

So this idea that SL has to be gender equal or they have to follow drug testing rules kinda is missing the point of the whole event. It's made up. Everything about it was done to capitalize on fast racing. You think the billionaire was worried about drug testing? Not a chance, you think he wanted equality gender when 1/2 the "top" triathlon women wouldn't be there. Right...this production wanted top of line everything and it did that. The rest of the "red tape" they *likely* yawned over.

ETA: not to say i agree with no women or no drug testing....but when stuff like this is created by a billionaire, it's his playground. And so when he catches enough flak for everything you will suddenly get the money man to exit left. I keep hearing SL will turn into a true series....I'll be shocked if it's more than 2 events. Not because it couldn't work, but because I don't think it'll be the financial success they see/want. They had 1 fb view that got over 100k views. 150k people is nothing in advertising. And yes I know that doesn't include cable numbers but the YouTube numbers didn't event get 40k views for single day coverage. This was a world class event that was likely bloody expensive. If it's around beyond even summer 2018 I would be shocked. It had what 4 sponsors, one of them being an gu sponsor? So I think it was incredible racing...sustainable? No way in hell unless you keep feeding off the billionaire's bank account.

So I'm not all that bothered by lack of testing. I was much more entertained with this specific event. They likely use the fact that 90% of these athletes are all monthly tested so why pay for something when someone else is already doing it. To me this is just a big paycheck race. So my expectations were a bit different. Too me this was like at USAT AG nats they had the pro super sprint "showcase", fun fast paced event to showcase the sport. I don't think nor expect it to turn into WTS 2.0 (apparently the racing season would be Nov-March....the dead period of ITU WTS). If/when it does my expectations will change. But made up one off events? I have much more leeway with my competitive expectations.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Mar 26, 17 6:37
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [The Guardian] [ In reply to ]
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I am gobsmacked by Maccas reply to Liz Blatchford. If that is how he presents himself, he needs to step back and allow someone else to be the public face of Super League.

Equality in sport is a massive thing in Australia currently, with the Womens AFL grand final on last weekend. If he didn't think that the lack of a womans race was going to make news then he is kidding himself. Also the excuse being basically that some top athletes were taking time off their work to have babies, is quite amusing - due to workplace equality being another very current issue.

He is failing in his job as a leader/promoter/whatever he is to Super League by being poorly prepared to discuss glaring issues, and being overly emotional.
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [davescott241] [ In reply to ]
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davescott241 wrote:
I am gobsmacked by Maccas reply to Liz Blatchford. If that is how he presents himself, he needs to step back and allow someone else to be the public face of Super League.

Equality in sport is a massive thing in Australia currently, with the Womens AFL grand final on last weekend. If he didn't think that the lack of a womans race was going to make news then he is kidding himself. Also the excuse being basically that some top athletes were taking time off their work to have babies, is quite amusing - due to workplace equality being another very current issue.

He is failing in his job as a leader/promoter/whatever he is to Super League by being poorly prepared to discuss glaring issues, and being overly emotional.

Really?, I disagree. Liz was wrong in what she stated, her information was incorrect. Also the top few women could not be contracted to race on that weekend as they actually are pregnant, nothing wrong with stating the truth or are we back into the days where pregnancy is an embarrassing subject we shouldn't be talking about?
It has been stated so many times that every Olympic medallist from last 2 games and every world champ back to 2008 were available to race for the men which is a huge selling point. 1 bronze medallist from last 2 games and only 2 world champs going back to 2008 for the women isn't exactly a headline now is it? Oh yeah, and for how many years has there been AFL men only comps? Macca has stated that the next event later this year will have women, only 7 months away, not 17 years. Whingers please get over it and stop being trouble makers, enjoy the event for what it was and what it could be in the future. The more ppl carry on and act so negatively the more chance we may never see another.
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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No, I am still gobsmacked by his emotional reply. If this in any way kills the series then it will be his fault entirely.

If one of the reasons was that too many women were pregnant, than that is ridiculous.

It is entirely reasonable for people to perceive that a backward step was being taken in term of gender inequality in triathlon. He should have been prepared to answer it in a professional way.
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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AlwaysCurious wrote:
And Macca responded in the classy, business-professional way we'd expect from him. Thankfully he can take critique and is not at all thin skinned, otherwise this series would self-destruct, as no reasonable sponsors or athletes would want to be associated with it.

Ahh Macca. Good cop & bad cop, all rolled into one.
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Forced- when only method of watching race is 1 format. It was not picked up by any US tv stations from what I was told and read in other threads. Therefore only option was online.

I caught it the next day on BEIN Sports in the US. Assume it wasn't aired live (I'm not sure), but a day later is pretty good. Great event and well packaged for TV. I wish Island House race coverages were turned around as fast and made more available.
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Re: Marisol Casado on SuperLeague. Important read. [davescott241] [ In reply to ]
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He may not make his point very eloquently but I believe he has a point.

To make a commercially sustainable series then it has to entertain the viewers and that means you have to get the superstars racing each other. If they'd got Ryf, Spirig and Jorgenson racing then I'd have tuned in to watch a womens race, if those three are not on the start line then I'd switch off after the mens race was over.

In the same vein if the mens race has Brownlee/Gomez/Mola/Murray then I'll watch, if it doesn't then I won't.

The business of sustainable sport is entertainment and female athletes like Blatchford should stop complaining that they're not included and start working out how they provide top class racing to entertain the viewers.
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