Please do not get your ass kicked of ST by just a few AH that seem to enjoy and look for stupid comments to give. The vast majority enjoys your presence here on ST.

Thanks,

Jeroen
Tri-Run.com

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

With respect to Lionel, who is a of course an outstanding athlete, he isn't in the same class as those you mentioned. Of course, if you win an Olympic title or Kona, you don't need Slowtwitch. Lionel hasn't even come close to that standard.

Beyond that, you might be right. Maybe his participation here doesn't make a shred of difference to his monetary success in triathlon going forward. But I think the leadership of the sport -- and the leadership of the companies that are derivative of it -- congregates on these boards either to post or to lurk. And I think that matters to that leadership. It's just another social media platform but arguably one of the more important in triathlon.

I don't like Lionel, but I do like his participation here. I don't like a lot of his views and how he has chosen to express them as a professional athlete, but I hope that he sticks around. Unlike the rest of you fucks, I like to hear opinions I don't like -- it challenges me and my own preconceived notions. That's why I come here. For the internet, this is an exceptionally safe place to have an opinion, even a bad one.

Also to the rest of you: you guys seem to think I'm just a garden variety troll, when what you really mean is that I am someone with opinions you disagree with, which is pretty weak sauce. The classic troll disguises his identity or poses as someone else; incites emotion for his own amusement; pretends to hold opinions he does not believe; and imperils sustained and relevant discussion. I have never disguised my identity; I don't usually post solely for my own amusement; I typically believe what I write, even as I'm prone to exaggeration and hyperbole; and I incite emotions on topics in a form that very often leads to high quality, relevant discussions.

Meanwhile, I am the troll. Yet you guys come one here and say, on this thread alone:

-You're a douche bag (3x)
-You have a small penis
-You are a girl

I mean, what in the actual fuck? At this point, my working assumption for those who have made such sixth grade-level ad hominem statements is that they are too intellectually impotent -- woah, that was a lot of syllables; what I mean is you're fucking dumb -- to use reason and logic and language to undermine my stated opinion and change the tenor of the discussion with respect to same. Meanwhile, Brooks was the one person who had the ability or willingness to do just that on this thread. If this was how every thread went, I wouldn't be here. And you all would be here on your own, salivating over athletes who won the physiological lottery but are unexceptional in every other sense.

Butthurt over some condescending comments on an internet forum? Boo Boo. Welcome to the internet.

You missed the point, but I'm not surprised that you did, given your demonstrated capabilities.

The point was that there was no relevant discussion in response to my remark (except from Brooks) and that you guys are hypocrites (and probably really dumb). I couldn't take less offense to your unfunny puerile statement.

You've missed the point as well. The statement was meant neither to offend not amuse. It was meant to point out that there is some measure of irony that someone who said, as you did earlier in this thread, what amounts to "don't be so thin skinned, it's only the internet" would then get so bent out of shape over some comments.

To be clear, I think you serve a useful purpose on this forum. You've stimulated some worthwhile discussions, though I think you often could have gone about doing that in a less inflammatory manner. But as they say, he who would have eggs must endure the cackling of hens.

However, as it pertains to this thread, many of us value the participation of pros on ST. It's part of what has made this place, and triathlon in general, so cool. And people like you are the reason they don't come on here much anymore, and this is a lesser place because of that. It's just too bad we can't have the eggs without the cackling.

Marcel, it is not exclusively an ST problem.

Let's rewind 10-15 years when a lot of pros came on here and engaged.

Now look at the "personal media landscape" back then....all you had was a personal website or a blog. Which basically meant a 1 way interaction to nearly no one. There was no way to "push" out your story as a pro athlete. Fast forward those 10-15 years and you have twitter and you have facebook and there is a lot of "love" you get with your custom personal community. I'm on Lionel's facebook thread where he is talking about his swim improvements. Almost everyone there are hailing him as a hero and sucking up to him. That's OK if you are a fan with your blinders on. Almost no one on his fb thread is actually talking about the technical aspect of climbing the underwater ladder or swimming past the anchored arm. The only 2 guys talking about it on that thread are myself and the guy who goes by MTL on ST.

On the balance despite the snarky comments on ST, there is lot of intellectually astute discussion that goes on here (heck even Pubes once you cut past the trolling behaviour....he's like the guy at work that execs hate the way he says it but they know they better listen to the underlying message). Pros won't get a ton for fan boy love here, they will get a discussion with intellectually equal peers. Just because a pro has superior athletic genetic make up does not mean age groupers can't have discussions with pros as peers on a logical level. So most pros actually don't want anonymous internet smart guys commenting and telling them what to do. Back in 2006, they did not have the social media tools to just engage with people who love them. Now they do. If you come to ST, you won't just get love, people will tell the emperor he does not have clothes if the emperor show up without them.

This type of behaviour has always been here on ST. Back in the day when Dan's house was the only triathlon social media, there were no options. Now there are options, which, I believe is the main reason why we see less pros here. That's fine, their lost.

Coming back to the thread, congrats to Lionel. If he can make the second pack and regional races and third pack at championship events, then his prospects get a lot better at the championships. He "just" needs to swim with the Kienle group. Will be interesting to see if he can get there.

Dev

Yes to pretty much everything you just said. Sometimes I wonder if you're even on the same thread, and other times you hit the nail on the head so hard it shocks me.

Minor point on contention: there is a lot of fan-boism here too. This is endless irritating to me, because I hate to see emotion and bias where reason should rule. But I will concede that ST is less replete with this kind of blind idolatry than any other internet mileu in the sport. And that's also why this forum challenges Lionel. As it should.

Yes, here the pros would get criticism and face uncomfortable questions. I do think there lies a lot of value in it as sometimes you have to get out of your comfort zone or pushed to realize something. And knowledge here is huge.
I remember Macca wrote in his book that he wants himslef to surround with people that are not just cheering and telling him how great he is. He wanted people that told him the truth.

But in the internet with so many different people, sometimes driven by emotion, and not everyone behaving in your best interest, it can get hard. You need to find out who really wants to help you and who just likes to throw oil into the fire.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Everything okay at home, buddy?

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Internet User

<3 <3 <3

I do wish that slowman would flip ST over to identifiable posters vs anonymous. This would take care of most of that. It would not stop people for making fake fb accounts to log in with for their online persona, but MOST won't go through the trouble and post with "who they really are". I think pros and industry people would be more comfortable interacting with "real people". Pubes can make his fake Pubes fb account and log in with that anyway to keep this place honest so it's not a giant group hug like you get on fb.

As in any democracy, critical thinking and discourse is important for the advancement in any area. Most of the time you don't get that on fb, it's generally just there to make everyone love each other and that's why most pros end up there, because they just want love from their fans. Who doesn't want love....much better than a mud slinging contest on fb....its the difference between going to the university debating club or hanging out in the pub with your best buds drinking pints. Most will opt for the latter, not the former.

PubliusValerius,
I don't know if you are a troll because I usually just ignore your postings and skip over them but since you seem to be part of the discussion. . .

Frankly who cares if you like Lionel Sanders? Again, I don't know if you are a troll but you are pretty much rude, crass and mean-spirited. And then you take offense when someone calls you out and all of a sudden seem, well sensitive.

Interestingly, you CAN actually ignore certain posters. It's very easy and all it requires a button click in that person's profile. Yet, oddly, nobody seems to do it with Publius.

And, nobody cares whether or not he likes Lionel or you like Lionel or I like Lionel. The point of a forum is the aggregation of lots and lots of opinions and experiences. So that when you ask which tube to use on your HED Jet+ Disc with Conti Force tire there is someone that can provide you with a good answer that's at least somewhat grounded in data AND anecdotal experience AND maybe even they used that combo at the same race as you...! Useful.

Sometimes it seems like people that post stuff like this are going and participating in the Golf Mk6 forums if you only drive a Prius.

Further, I LIKE Lionel. I like that he wears his virtual heart on his virtual sleeve and that he makes mistakes (sometimes through no fault of his own and sometimes it's his fault) and I appreciate his dedication to improvement and admire his massive engine that can, frequently, make up for those mistakes. But even though I am a fan of LS, I don't dislike (or even disagree with, sometimes) PV's posts regarding Lionel or even others who don't necessarily like him (I suppose it's not a like or dislike thing, it's just a...thing).

I finally broke down and hit the ignore button.

It's not that I always (or even usually) disagree with him, it's just that what ever point of view he holds is presented in the most argumentative and confrontational manner possible.

I come to slowtwitch for just what you said; it doesn't matter how trivial the detail or technical the aspect, I can find my answer here.

However, most of his posts either mildly annoy me or actually make me angry. He could just present his opinion, but he chooses to consistently do it in the most inflammatory way imaginable. It's irritating, and tiresome.

He's not the only troll, he's just the most consistent and abrasive.

well-put psychosid - great writing

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

Not to beat a dead horse, but given your non-apology apology above, I'm curious what the typo was or what LS said that was incorrect? He said he felt like he was at a post-fight UFC press conference or a press conference for one of the big 4 NA sports. Where is the typo or inconsistency? You even agree with him that there are 4 major NA sports (I don't think there is any dispute there).

Even if he did make some kind of technical error in his analogy (which based on what you quoted from his blog he didn't), for you to start nit-picking it is pretty weak in the broader context of why we all spend time here.

Wait. So you ignore/skip over or you don't? Seems you know a lot about him for apparently paying no attention.

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"One Line Robert"

Absolutely. You'd only have to read 1 out of every 10 of PV's posts to draw a conclusion like Pat0's.