This. I don't understand the physiology of it, but the training effects that I have noticed are:

1) I do produce better key workouts. I do repetitive stuff, usually just a 5 mile tempo balls out every other week or so. I then track my progress over weeks and months and years. n=1, but I have gotten way faster at this indicator workout under the "run easy" regimen.
2) I recover much quicker from key workouts. The 5 mile tempo used to take a lot out of me, making it hard for me to bounce back and do a hard bike workout or a long run the next day. Now my legs are quite fresh the next day.
3) I have kept volume the same, but if I were trying to increase volume, I think it would be much easier.
4) I have increased bike intensity. Easy run days, which are almost every day, don't seem to take anything out of me at all. I am now smashing my bike workouts, which are done later the same day. This is making me a better triathlete as not only has my run speed increased, but my legs are fresh enough that I am increasing FTP.

20 miles at race pace...that workout would crush me for a week or more. To your point about psychology, I think I get more of a boost out of key indicator workouts. Race pace workouts are much more dependent on the cumulative fatigue you carry into a workout. But since I am fresh enough to do a balls out indicator workout every couple weeks, and I am slashing time week after week, I know that I am getting faster, rather than just doing a race pace workout on a day that I am particularly fresh.

The caveat to all of this is that 50mpw is pretty high run volume for a triathlete. I do a run-heavy program. If I were forced to run more like 25 to 30mpw, I do wonder if some of those "easy runs" would naturally be faster while achieving some of the gains outlined above. I don't know.

I would encourage you to slow way down. Just give it a try for 3 or 4 months and see if it works. It's unlikely to hurt and might help a lot. I am going to write the next book, instead of "Run Less, Run Faster", it will be titled "Run Slower, Run Faster" :).

As for the value of easy runs at 30mpw, I can attest to the value. I've done barryp/30mpw for 12 months now, 85% easy paced running, and I've been injury free for the longest stretch ever and have improved my half marathon time by 11 minutes to 1:24.

Just to be clear, is the 5 mile tempo effort the only speed/hard effort component to your run training? If so, do you think that approach would change if you were only running and not training for tri's? Do you do any short course racing?

Not for every recovery run.

But I found it very helpful to take a longer, say 10 mile, run at the slowest pace that could still qualify to be a running stride two or three days before a middle distance race.

At the time, I was 45 and running at 7:05 per mile for a half marathon race. My pace for this super slow
pre-race run (on well cropped grass) was about 9:45 to 10:00 per mile. My race HR was about 165-180 bpm off a maximum of 205 bpm. My HR for those super slow 10 mile runs was about 129-130. After those pre race runs, I immediately felt stronger and had no soreness whatsoever and had good races.

I am no scientist and do not have any explanation for this. Never read or heard this was a good idea. Just saying it worked for me.

Timothy Carlson

Usually, yes. I also do a long run every week, usually 16 miles. Even though the long run is also at an easy pace (sometimes finishing with a few race pace miles), I consider it a "hard effort". It does not feel hard, but it certainly takes more out of me than 6 miles at easy pace. At 50mpw, with 3 really hard bike workouts a week, I don't think I could handle another hard run workout. That would mean I am doing a hard legs workout 6 of 7 days of the week. I believe that is the mistake that a lot of people make. They think "well this is one minute per mile slower than my HIM pace, and feels easy, so I will recover from it quickly". But if you do that for all of your "easy runs", you are never really running easy enough to fully recover in preparation for the next truly hard effort (VO2max bike intervals, tempo run, whatever).

To your second question, I have never implemented this approach during pure marathon training as I only had the humility to try it relatively recently. I can tell you that I used to run 70-80mpw but plateaued at 2:55 open mary. I imagine that I could handle three hard run workouts a week (one intervals, one tempo, one long run) on 50mpw with the rest at an appropriately easy pace, but I do wonder if the reason I was not improving on 70-80mpw with three hard workouts a week is that my "easy days" were not appropriately easy.

To your third question, not yet. I have always thought that I was more of an endurance type, so eschewed short course for lack of top end speed. But with this new approach I seem to be gaining top end speed based on open 10K runs. So I am hoping that the training will translate to short course.

n=1

One more thing: somebody mentioned that people should ignore the Garmin and just run by feel. I think this can work for some, but for many their feel is miscalibrated to what they think is their "easy pace", rather than what their easy pace should be. I recommend people actually use the Garmin as a tool to force themselves to run at what is a truly appropriately slow pace. Roughly 2 minutes/mile slower than HIM pace. The same idea as using a PM to rein in oneself's inaccurate RPE during the bike leg of a tri.

2min/mile seems a lot, I went for a run today and settled at 6min/km without my watch being visible. Jack Daniels has easy pace at 5:23 to 5:43 based on a 5k of 21min flat which i feel gets my heart rate too high.

I had the good fortune of running for Jack Daniels, while at Cortland State, and he always emphasized the importance of running the prescribed pace on our reps, intervals and tempo work, but I don't recall him ever being worried about what pace he wanted us running on easy runs (although he did say that long runs should be the same pace as easy runs).

I'm heard him lecture about easy run pacing, recently, and he pretty much said, it's ok to run "slow", as long as your running mechanics are not compromised (cadence, posture, etc). I think this is a great guideline. If you are running "sloppy" because you are too fatigued, then maybe it's a good idea to do something different, rather than risk injury and/or reinforcing bad mechanics.

As long as you're running for distance, rather than time, you're total work and energy expenditure won't really be any different, just a slight difference in fuel ratio (carbs v. fats).

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I don't do kilometers OP, and you mentioned 5min/km for 5k race pace, but my 5k race pace is 5min/mile, and my easy pace is 6:40-7:00.

Another way to think about it is, easy pace is like 60-80s slower than marathon pace.

So if you follow those rules, your 5min/km for 5k probably comes out to like 11 minute pace for your easy stuff? Everyone differs though. The longer you run, the more naturally your easy pace feels and the faster easy pace becomes.

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I remember in high school, our coach would tell us to go run at a pace that you can recite your book report or the details about the girl you fancy.

That's another good way to think about it.

Easy pace - very easy to hold discussions. It's conversation pace.

Marathon pace and Steady State pace - 3-4 sentences at a time is about what you can really do.

Tempo pace - Short phrases/sentences

5k race pace - your ass isn't running fast enough if you can talk.

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Today I was trying to persuade one of my friends to run most of his runs much slower than he does. I'm a stronger runner than him yet he runs about a minute faster per mile on average in training (he also struggles with symptoms of overtraining). I took a look at my most recent runs to see what pace I run them vs. his recent runs. To help others get a sense for "easy pace" beyond just seeing a range like 8:30-9:00, here is my list. For reference, my half marathon pace is 6:27 and HIM pace is 7:16.

8:17
7:16 (long run with marathon pacing)
7:55
7:51 (track...sub 6 paced intervals)
8:43
9:55
9:46
10:00
7:32 (track...sub 6 paced intervals)
9:03
8:16
8:45
8:17 (hill repeats)
8:03
9:03
10:16
7:59
7:54 (track...sub 6 paced intervals)
8:00
8:12
9:00
8:52

Maybe run with a heart rate monitor? If you have a garmin you can set it to buzz whenever you go over a certain heart rate which will remind you to slow down. I've done this in the past with long slow runs and it seems to help me keep the pace down.

C an you set it to buzz if you go faster than a certain pace? That might be a better idea.

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I used to do that (notify me if I'm exceeding a predetermined pace) but some days an x:xx pace is too slow, other days too fast. Whereas the HR metric might tell me I need to be running much slower than normal as my recovery is lacking (even though I may be feeling pretty good and overly motivated). I think specific paces are good for tempo/intervals/repeats, but personally I allow my slow pace to be more fluid as the duration is more important to me than the pace for slow runs.

If my math is right, 6min/km is 9:30min/mile. If you are running a 21min 5K (6:45 min/mile), then your HIM pace is somewhere around 7:45 min/mile? So you are basically doing your easy runs at almost 2 min/mile slower than your HIM pace, which was the guideline I suggested.

The above dude who replied is way faster than me. I have gotten way faster by listening to the wisdom of those who are way faster. I run a 5K in a pinch under 17 min. 5:25 min/mile. HIM pace around 6:20min/mile. As I stated previously, I do almost all of my running at 8:15-8:30min/mile. This has worked wonders. Again, I am only n=1, but I have had dramatic and rapid improvement in both run and bike on this approach after having plateaued previously.

I cannot emphasize strongly enough that everybody should try this experiment for a few months and see if it works for you. The worst case scenario is that you stay injury free, build run mileage, and simultaneously have more energy to improve your swim and bike.

Ok, yeah just took a bit to get my head around the conversions, 2min/mile is far less difference in min/KM, i forget how big the difference is between a mile and kilometer.

So my easy pace would be 6:05/km, which ironically is what i ran when i covered my watch and went by RPE yesterday. It is going into Winter down here in Australia, so i have nothing to lose by trying something different. I will make sure on my harder workouts at the track that i hit the paces set out on Jack Daniels and try my easy runs a touch over 6min/KM.

Fascinating. I just started reading Sissons Primal Blueprint and it is laded with "slow down." It's so hard for me to wrap my head around because since I started Tri's around 10yrs ago, I have gotten significantly faster by, well, running faster! And biking, swimming, etc.

So to hear all of this makes me so damn nervous! But you know what, for at least my running I am going to take a day easy. Same with my longer bike rides and some swimming days too. What the hell, I'll try it my 2nd half of the season and see how it goes!

I like this advice. In the past, I've been so used to the idea that I need to be constantly pushing myself hard that my easy runs turn into making sure I meet some pace. More and more, specifically on my easy runs, I've started adding walk breaks and try not to pay attention to my watch nearly as much.

Heart rate works well when you run on trails and hills.

When people train too fast like your friend, the term i've seen for it is black hole training.

You're in a weird pace where you aren't getting many of the aerobic benefits of running at steady state pace or faster but aren't running easy pace.

Using my paces, that zone for me is like 6:10-6:50. If i'm sitting inside that region on a normal flat run, there's a good chance i'm wasting those miles. At those paces I don't get solid aerobic gains, but I am ensuring the muscles aren't recovering the way they should be. Over multiple runs/weeks, this black hole training starts to show its symptoms...shin splints, ITBS, overtraining, etc.

Easy runs are purely there to get mileage. They're not supposed to be "slow", just easy. If you have to think about it, you're not doing it right. Often times I'll start my garmin, switch the screen back to the time of day, and then go about my way so I don't get caught up thinking about pace throughout the run. Those are often some of my best easy runs. I recommend that to others who struggle with staring at their garmins, hungry to race every segment or constantly go a little faster on days you shouldn't be.

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The widely acknowledged guru in the endurance world on this question is Dr Phil Maffetone.

Go to his website does take time to read and understand deeply - totally recommend this approach - but it is much more than just about run speed on long runs.

https://philmaffetone.com/

Or even leave the watch at home, don't look at the time as you leave the house and then you have no data to compete with, even if you want to. You can still log the distance manually to Garmin Connect, Training Peaks or whatever, just not with a known pace or HR.