A side note to my earlier account of short course worlds, Molina and Ricardo are both doing Ironman, so you can throw them into the mix with Zack and Larsen. ALthough Larsen is still a youngster, he will have to wait a couple years to achieve his legand status. In fact I believe it was Molina's first question to Ricardo right after the race, "You doing Hawaii?"

Man, I like and respect Larsen and all. But can one really put up those fast times on 6 hours a week? Sure he has a great base and it could be argued he is just maintaining. But how can you compete in a 9 hour (if youre fast) race with just 6 hours a week of training? Part of ironman training is building up your bodies tolerance. Perhaps his is already high and he just has to maintain. But can it really be done on 6 hours a day?

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- Nick
Now that I know some of you guys look through the special needs bags for kicks, I'm gonna put some really weird stuff in mine. I can see it now. "What the heck was he going to do with a family pack of KFC chicken, a football helmet full of peanut butter, a 12 inch rubber dildo, and naked pictures of Bea Arthur?"

Monty, I was just kidding, but is Zack racing age group ? I thought he WAS racing pro.

Zack is racing pro, but the after race comparisons will be fun to push around here on the forum. WIth Ricardo and Molina pushing each other, I have no doubt that one or both will beat many of the pro times....Throw Bonness and a few others in there, and the masters AG'rs have quite a race going on there...

That's it, you guys need a masters pro division. Start up front with the other pros, but you need your own prize purse to bring out all the other studs up to bat.

i think larsen's comment on ST that he only trained 6 hours per week, was exactly what inflammed so many twitchers on previous threads...it is physically impossible to beat guys like peter reid on only 6 hours training per week...not humanly possible...

Nothing in life is "impossible"



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You would be surprised what you can do on a minimal training program AFTER training hard and long for many years. This is a point that many here and elsewhere have a hard time getting. However, I understand their views since they may be new to the sport and are still trying to get their heads around getting in 7 hours in a week and that seesm huge to them. If you train hard and long consistantly for 10 - 20 years, the base fitness does not go away overnight. It STAYS for years!

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Fleck, you better be ready to leverage that 20 years of base when you make your comeback next year :-)

But, as you get older it goes quicker, and comes back slower. Good reason to keep a good base at any age.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

no offense fleck...but you honesetly think that larsen could beat peter reid in a 1/2 ironman on only 6 hours of training...no way. i am not saying he couldnt be very fast or put up a good time...i am not saying that he couldnt beat other very good athletes...but there is no way that one elite guy training on 6 hours a week can beat a three time IM Hawaii winner training a full regimen...

i know many professional atheletes in a number of sports...i know many olympians in cardio sports...these people would all admit that they could not beat other elite atheletes on marginal training

Depends if you look at it half full, or half empty!!

To state as a fact that someone like Steve could not compete with 6 hours a week training is not the same as being a PGA golfer.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

"Depends if you look at it half full, or half empty!!"

Whether a glass is half-full or half-empty depends on whether you just poured the water into the glass or just poured half of the water out of the glass :)

Haim

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"

"these people would all admit that they could not beat other elite atheletes on marginal training"

I think there's a world of difference between what SL has been putting in during those 6 hours a week and "marginal training". I've seen people who have not competed in a long time put in some fantastic performances on very little (but focused and intense) training, and it's that BIG base that was built over years that got them through.

We're not talking about some one who's been sitting on the couch for 10 years here...

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

   

"but you honesetly think that larsen could beat peter reid in a 1/2 ironman on only 6 hours of training..."

I did not say that. I agree - no one training 6 hours/week is going to beat someone like Peter Reid. However, I will stand by my statment that some one like Steve Larsen will be able to do very "well" on what many would consider a shockingly low amount of training. Reason. He's put a huge amount of miles in the aerobic bank over the years and that training does not disappera overnight. Even with a maintenance program he would be able to do very well for years to come.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

That's the trick.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

We'll see. It all depends on the back and how it responds. It's a week to week thing. I just know that the few times that I have tried to ramp it up again, I was shocked at how quickly things came back. I have been able to stay reasonably active.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

30+ hours a week of training like Reid probably did all year does not make you faster--- It makes you slower. Until you peak. It does not suprise me that Larson could beat Reid in a shorter race in mid-season. Reid will probably get a huge boost from his taper and race out of his mind this weekend. I am sure Larson will do well since he will at least not be overtrained but he won't get the boost that Reid will get. Good luck to both of them. -Marc

Triathlon is still to new a sport for the absolute limits or best protocols to be really established. Nordic skiing is a sport that perhaps is a bit parallel and has a much longer history and a great deal more research done on it. I recall reading a Norwegian study from a few years ago that the program for many of the people who would become world class skiers like Bjorn Dahlie, was to build up to about 1000 hours/year( about 20 hours /week) in the early 20's and then actually back off that as the years went by. Dahlie was at his best doing quite a bit less than the 1000 hours year. The studies found that performnace tailed off quite a bit beyond 1000 hours a year. They attributed this to having to spend more down-time recovering from injuries or fatigue from over-training.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Is is just me, or do most people on this forum need to learn how to read?

Steve Larsen: Most weeks I am fortunate to train more than six hours. I make them all count and have many years of hard work to call on.

He says that he is fortunate to train more than six hours. I would say 95% of the people on this forum fall into that category too. We are fortunate to train 6,7,8,9,10,11,12,...however many hours we train. He might have meant to say something to the effect of, "most weeks I can only train six hours," or, "most weeks I can't even get in six hours of training." We do not know what he intended to say. If he trained 20 hours per week every week then his statement would still remain true; he would still be fortunate to train more than 6 hours. I know it is subtle, but don't read into what he said, just take it at face value.

Hey...this is supposed to be a Zack thread...

Glad to see he is racing pro and not racing on the 6 hour per week plan. I predict that he goes with Stadler on the bike.

Who is gonna win first German to T2. We got Stadler, Zack and Al Sultan in contention. What about Hellriegel. Have not heard much about him this year.

I think that if al-Sultan can stay close to Stadler that he will win on saturday. Faris is a better runner than Normann, and I think that Normann's strong ride could blow-up others legs. Of the guys who can keep Normann on the radar, I think al-Sultan runs the best.

Norman and Faris should just pay Jurgen to be their 40 year old super domestique:

Norman: "Hey Jurgen, what are you doing with your backside of the age curve, overused frame on the noodle bike."

Jurgen: "Norman, you forget about the history of this race. While Wolfgang invented the First to Hawi race, I perfected the first to T2 race. Race on Saturday ends at T2. I'm not letting no 6 hour training age group poser take the bike course record"

Norman: "Jurgen, sorry, I perfected first to T2. I never saw you carry a 20 min lead into T2 and then actually hold it together on the run. The best you could do was second and then you were only second German behind Thomas."

Jurgen:"OK, fair enough, but I am taking back the bike course record on Saturday"

Faris, sipping a lame watered down American espresso: "Norman, this is perfect. I've been riding with my nose in the wind for the past 2 years. Jurgen, how about joining me for beers in Munich for October fest. I'll buy you a couple of Steins and we work together from Hawi to T2. I'll be out of the water 5 min ahead of you anyway, so you can have the record"

Jurgen:"Faris, you thinks you can buy me off with two?"

Norman: "Jurgen, how about 3"

Jurgen: "Deal, but we still sprint for T2 glory"

Faris: "The BundesExpress is taking the full podium this year...both T2 and finish line. Jurgen, no dogging the marathon"

Jurgen:"The running race ended at the underpants run. The rest of my trip ends at T2. No age group posers are taking the holy bike course record back to Bend. Its going back to Cologne where it belongs"