For the apologists out there, I am probably much to moral to comment on this but here goes. Per the guru of Bobozone, you would probably have to take enough ma huang to kill you to get the same benefit as drafting for 112 miles. Yet if they find a trace in your bloodstream, you are suspended for 2 years. Draft you a** off and you may lose 4 minutes.
It is against the rules of the sport which are to give everyone the same advantage and, therefore, immoral.

Bob Sigerson

Intentional drafters (cheaters) should be shot with paintball guns on the course by omniscient and omnipresent USAT referees.

Unintentional (situational) drafters should be forced to search inward for enlightenment and redemption while swatting themselves repeatedly with the latest copy of the USAT handbook.

Athletes who intentionally hang on the legal 7 meter (AG) draft zone in order to gain the marginal physical and large mental benefit at this distance should be severely scowled at by small children while chased by very angry lap dogs during training runs.

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Marty Gaal, CSCS
One Step Beyond Coaching
Triangle Open Water Swim Series | Old School Aquathon Series
Powerstroke® Freestyle Technique DVD

Drafting = cheating. Cheating is bad. Ultimately the quality of our expereince in a race is what most of us take away when we are done since few of us are likely to ever a win a triathlon overall. If you have to willfully cheat and exploit the rules to enhance your race expereince, well, do so. I am not the one to judge the "rightness" or value of your effort. In my book, for myself, I want my own effort to be as clean as possible. I have drafted in races (Chicago) and felt shitty afterward. It's not part of what I include in the sport. But then again, that's just me.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Drafting: Illegal or Immoral? - Both

Playing against the rules is something you find in sports such as basketball, hockey, water polo and many others. Where breaking the rules is sometimes seen as necessary and well ..... part of the game. Clearly the people you speak of see it the same way for their races.

To me, it flies in the face of "playing clean" - kinda like doping.

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put the mettle to the pedal

...and why is drafting during the swim not looked upon with the same negativity as during the bike? Gaining an advantage off another competetor is gaining an advantage off another competetor in my book.

Comparing tri to other sports with a sufficient number of officials or referees is absurd. There are several circumstances when a penalty or foul in other sports is used as an "acceptable price to pay" for the result. Two examples - fouling in basketball at the end of the game to force the other team to the free throw line, or pass interference in football when you are beaten deep and have no other choice to prevent an obvious score. In both of these situations the offender is willing to accept the results of the infraction.

In tri, intentional drafters are simply taking advantage of the lack of adequate officials to police all participants on the entire course. Drafters are cheaters ... cheaters are loosers. Regardless whether they are on the podium or not. And the sad part - they know this as well.

Steve

Damn good point Chubby. Would basketball allow 5 fouls if the ref was only able to look in once every 15 minutes?

This one's a gimme, prof: Both.
Drafting is obviously illegal since the rules forbid it. It is immoral because it is completely contrary to the essence of the triathlon, which is to complete the race as an individual time trial.

I don't want to derail the thread by discussing drafting on the swim, as I think the swim should be focused more on racer safety than anything else.

I will say this, though. Many of the people I have met in triathlon are nicer and more considerate than the people I meet on the street. I think that is because we are part of a fairly small community, and therefore more courteous to each other. Nevertheless, we are part of a larger culture which is seeing a trend towards thinking that the rules are for other people and not ourselves. Add the fact that many triathletes are highly motivated people who will do whatever it takes to succeed, and you are going to have cheating.

The most offensive occurrance I saw this year was at FirmMan when this group of three guys, all in the same team gear, were drafting off one another, blocking, and doing just about every other illegal thing one can do on a bike, for about ten miles, until we got out of the hilly section of the course, when the only fast one of the three dropped the other two. Now whenever I see anyone in that club, I think they are a cheating scumbag.

Sadly, regardless of whether drafting is illegal or immoral, people will do it if it gives them an advantage. Many people would rather be winners than honest.

There are a couple of caveats here, though. I think that many races are way too crowded, and I think that there are many situations where drafting is unavoidable due to the crowded courses.

I won't apologize for the rant. You triggered my sense of righteous indignation.

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Depends on your goal for the race.

If your goal is to place as high as possible -- i.e. podium or qualifying slot -- then you have a responsibility to yourself to take every possible advantage that the rules allow. You should also expect your competitors to take every possible advantage they can get.

If you are racing against your own personal time goal, then you get to enforce your own personal "moral" standards about drafting, both on the swim and on the bike. The only person you're really trying to impress is yourself, and you'll know better than anyone whether you cheated. If get a penalty, you also get to choose whether you agree with the penalty and whether you count your "actual" time or your "reported" time when you write it down in your PR book.

If your goal is "just finish" then you have a responsbility to yourself to strictly obey all the rules, because no matter what, if you get DQ'ed you don't finish.

Lee

I recognize that there are some very good athletes on this forum for whom a podium finish is a very real part of the sport, but I suspect the vast majority of us will never come close to the podium even within the age group let alone overall.

From that perspective, drafting seems especially bizarre as you're cheating against yourself. In addition to being legally and morally wrong it's existentially wrong. Does the MOP'er who drafts to a PR really have a PR? It's like some kind of zen koan really. What' the fuc*!ing point of doing a solo sport like triathlon if you're going to cheat. Might as well cut the course short and still tell people you're an Ironman.

Drafting is neither illegal nor immoral in non-drafting triathlons. It is legal. At least using the 15 second rule when you overtake another rider. In crosswind situations if there are enough people lined up on the right, you can get a rather nice slingshot effect when going past them. Again legal as long as you keep passing one every 15 seconds. When passing I ride right up on someones wheel and then swing left to pass.
Blantant drafting outside this is both illegal and immoral. I'll play with the rules and use as much latitude as allowed.
Ironically in triathlon Worlds one year I was in a pack of about 50 in my age group. In duathlon worlds 2002 I never saw anyone draft except to pass.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I'm not sure that I meant that highly competitive athletes should try to draft as long as they don't think they'll get caught. I was thinking more of the situations that Desert Dude pointed out, where you can legally take advantage of the position of other racers.

For example, you can break up a competitor's rhythm by passing them and forcing them to back off, then slowing down after you've made the pass so they have to slow even more. There was a whole thread about this a few months ago. Or if you're racing under the stagger rule and there's a crosswind, you can effectively position yourself to draft and still have it be perfectly legal.

I think your response goes to the "calculated risk" question of drafting -- is the time gain of drafting for part of the bike leg worth the potential of getting a 4 minute penalty? It is legal to try to take such a risk, but a)you don't really know when an official has written down your number and b)few of your competitors are going to cooperate with this strategy. It's unlikely anyone will get 4 minutes worth of benefit. The calculation says that it's not worth the risk. But I'm sure some people take that risk anyway and don't get caught.

For better or for worse, triathlon is a race, not an individual time trial. There are other people on the course, and that offers several legal opportuntities for advantage to the smart competitor. If you're trying to get a top slot, I believe you should look for and take those opportunities.

Lee

Lee,

Sorry if I misinterpreted you. Actually, I completely agree with you on the racing part. There are rules to IM racing, and someone racing should fully take advantage of what the rules provide. My beef is that some take more, and break the rules, just because the chances of getting caught are small (not enough refs) or that the penalty is too small. I've seen guys (in fact, I found myself doing it a couple of times last week) sitting 3 bike lengths behind pelotons, no doubt getting a pull (shoot, you'll even get a small pull 3 lengths behind a single rider). But actions like these are within the rules, and are cool as far as I'm concerned. Blantantly breaking rules and gaining an advantage just cause you won't get caught is crap.

V, sounds like we're in agreement. Now if only I could get fast enough to try to qualify for something. Someday I'll be able to put all these tactics to good use!

Lee

I like to read threads on drafting because it reinforces to me that our sport if full of great people who work hard for their race results. HOWEVER, I find it very interesting that the drafters never reply in these discussions to justify their actions. Since we have all seen drafting at races and in some places a lot of drafting, then it is obvious that there is percentage of the population out there who draft.

Why don’t they comment? They don’t want to identify themselves as a cheater. And they know they are cheating or they would speak up and say that they are not cheating, but playing within the rules. This gives me another small bit of comfort, because I know at the end of the day they can’t look themselves in the mirror and say “You kicked but today” and really believe it because deep down they know they did wrong.

Endurance sports are hard and painful and fought for the most part against our own mind and tolerance for pain. Drafter may win the battle for awards and finish times and placing, but ultimately they will lose the battle with themselves.





Drafting in the swim is an entirely different issue. It is within the rules and impossible to officiate. In fact, if I draft in races it is mostly by accident. I have tried in the past to get a draft off of faster swimmers, but it is nearly impossible. Cycling is another story. If Lance Armstrong zoomed by and I had the umph to catch his wheel, then I could happily zoom along on his draft, even at time trial speed. I know this because I have done motorpacing before at 30+ mph and it is hard but doable.

I've never had the opportunity to draft in a draft illegal race, but I've been recently initiated in the ways of draft legal ITU racing; so I suppose I could be considered a drafter adding 2 cents. My thoughts.

1.Because muscle fatigue poses more of a threat to running ability than blood lactate (in the case of triathlon type efforts), the un-even nature of drafting efforts in Ironman do little to help all but the most organized and smoothest groups (The pros)and many of them seemed to find little benefit.

2.Morality, as it applies to sports, is only a function of the entrenched culture (I like the baseball analogy), and I find it interesting that many foreigners have no reservations about drafting. Drafting doesn't have to be viewed as cheating, but rather as part of an optimization problem, or a strategic gamble.

3.Drafting is a major factor on the swim already, so it's hard for someone to justify that individual time trial is the nature of the sort. If you were to time an individual swim effort for every member of a large Ironman, the swim time disparity would be greatly magnified.

4. Drafting adds a dynamic that triathlon was missing: strategic complexity and gamesmanship (something that many would consider a virtue). Although perhaps it's the case that triathletes become triathletes to find refuge from that.

5.That said, I'm not morally against drafting, but I love non-drafting races. A smooth time trial effort leaves the legs feeling good for the run. Drafting style efforts, whether a local group race ride, or an itu race; leave my legs in an unpleasant state.

6.One point that I would make against drafting: it benefits elites (if anyone) and potentially would endanger age-groupers. Triathlon is not really a spectator sport, its fueled by participation; and as such the culture must first consider the interest of the masses.

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"you gotta eat lightning and crap thunder"
-Mick (in reference to rocky vs. clubber lang)

Mick,

I agree with some of your points, but not others.

1. I agree completely that muscle fatigue is an issue. Most drafting in tri's that are supposedly non-drafting has appeared to me to be a very herky-jerky affair. It is definately not a smooth, well-working paceline. As such, my feelings on this have changed and it doesn't bother me as much. It is still cheeting as it applies to the rules, but drafters may pay a steep price for their efforts later.

2. I don't agree at all. Basketball has 2 or three refs for 10 people. A big tri might have 5 for 1800. This leads to an uneven application of the rules and playing field that is not level.

3. According to the rules, swim drafting is legal, cycling drafting is not. Your point is true, but that is what the rules say.

4. True again and I admit as a former bike racer that I wanted to get away from pack-style riding. I can't sprint well and though I was rarely dropped, I never won a race. I still love cycling and prefer the time trial format.

5 and 6. I agree again. When the pack goes, you have to go and to heck with even pacing. In America there are far fewer people who have any pack riding skills when they enter triathlon. I raced in France and couldn't believe the number of racers. In general I would say that Europeans are better prepared to race in draft-legal races. Americans are not.

I really like the suggestion Andrew made a couple of pages ago - no Kona spot if caught drafting. Not DQed - you'd still get your 4 minutes for your first, and 12 for the second, but the first drafting penalty would also make the athlete ineligible for a qualifying slot. I think you'd see a huge change in the dynamics near the front of the race. I think it would become far more tactical and interesting as people work hard to NOT draft, rather than working hard to not get caught.

i race triathlon because i like racing and seeing what i am capable of doing on my own. if i wanted to do a team sport, i would. i suspect that for many of us, tri's are a race against the clock, not against others (except maybe a friendly battle with a training partner). i guess i don't really see a reason to draft. why would i want to post a result that i know i didn't rightfully earn? if i've done my training, said my prayers and ate my wheaties, come race day, i want to see what i can do on my own and, at the end of the day, feel satisfied and fulfilled having left it all out on the course.

as far as the remark about not drafting during the swim, i'd like to hear how you'd plan on solving that problem! do you propose sending 2000 people off in 20sec. increments? let's see, by the time the last person sets off on the swim (11 hours after the start of the race), it would be pitch dark and many would already have finished! don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that swim drafting is okay either, but i don't see a way around it.

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"I'm happy when life's good,
and when it's bad I cry.
I've got values but I don't know how or why."
- The Who