glad you're back and hope you're feeling better. I took Effexor for four years for dysthymia (before I was triathlon training) and it worked really well for me. it was a bitch for me to get off of, but you don't have to deal with that right now. :) I do agree with what someone else said about getting therapy in addition to the medication. one alone sometimes isn't enough. I really don't have anything more to offer than to let you know I'm thinking about you and good luck.
Cam

Nuh-uh. No triple!

DA10 gruppo
DA pedals
Ergomo w/compact crank
Fulcrum Racing Wheels (red)
Salsa Ti skewers (red)
Salsa carbon Poco bar
Arundel Trident carbon cages
Sidi shoes
Vittoria tires

and I've already received fashion tips and admonitions about no Bento Box, no XLAB, no tri shorts.

That's my girl.

Chip,

First, I'll echo what a lot have said and welcome you back. I'm glad to hear that you seem to be getting the help that you need.

I have written a lot about my story in various threads over the past year. I can say that I am not sure that triathlon and depression are linked in that one causes the other.

I do think there are a ton of people who race triathlons that are depressed and they use tri as a tool to combat the symptoms of depression.

I also think that triathlon draws a certain personality type that might be more apt to suffer from OCD which can also lead to depression.

As far as the effects of anti-depressives it seems to be very individual. In my case I was taking an SSRI (Lexapro) and the hardest side effect that I suffered was that I really needed to get 8 hours of sleep EVERY day no matter what. I was completely unable to function if I did not get that sleep. It was tough on my training because early morning training sessions were difficult, and my job sometimes puts me in a sleep deprived state. So my off days were often messed up.

I haven't read through this entire thread, but scanning through a bunch of them it seems like you are getting some pretty different and varied advice.

Keep on keeping on, my brother!!!

Bernie

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"Slowbern has always made astute observations."-Casey 03/10/2009
2013-2014 Detroit Lions---13-3 until proved otherwise.

here's my experience and guess. I think very many people are affected by mood swings and depression. It's just that exercise can help you elevate your mood. It's an effective anti-depressant. The only problem with me is that when the weather is good I could train all day and am on top of the world. Better than I would ever feel without exercising.But once I get depressed I stop exercising. I know I shouldn't but I fall into one of those "endless cycles". And the lack of exercise makes me more depressed. I think exercise can mess with your homonal balances and going from exercising while being in a great mood, to stop exercising when I first get down is an amplyfier to my problem.

With me the onset of depression is very weather related. I'm all happy and can train all day long when the sun is shining and the temperatures are warm. I can deal with one day of clouds, but after that I'm in trouble. I lose focus and all of a sudden don't care anymore about my training. Luckily just temporarily until the sun pops out again.

Today is one of those days...shouldn't it be sunny here in California??? I will have to force myself to go exercise. I know it shouldn't be that big of a deal but I'm not myself when the sun is not out. Maybe I should get some anti-depressant medicine I can pop when I start feeling the initial change in my mood with "bad" weather. Or maybe I should relocate from the Earth to the Sun.

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�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

Chip

Sorry to read that you've been plagued by such doubts and fears. FWIW give yourself some credit....your'e doing ok and will be ok. Always remember you are not alone on this anxiety/depression thing. Ain't one person around who has not been affected to some degree at one point.

As a poster noted, there is correlation between depression and overtraining. I know that from experience. I had to bail on IMAZ. I covered that on a previous thread.

I was in the dumps for a couple weeks......but as it is written, time heals all wounds.

Now I am back to training......but the game plan is, it must be fun. You have to be going out the door looking forward to the workout, not doing it because you "have to."

My work schedule is what it is. One can't force the training in no matter what. YOu can only do what your schedule alows.

So, take the small victories that each day affords. For example, I swam with the masters last night. Got in the fast lane. Were a couple gals in it.....ex collegiate. For the main set, 11x200. First three on 2:50 sendoff, then 2:45, then 2:40. Told the coach and the gals, I'll do the best that I can. Made the first two with 5 seconds rest. Then fell off pace. Coach saw I was struggling so he moved me down a lane to a 3:05 sendoff. I was blown but was able to hold pace.

That is what I mean by a small victory. On my own I never would have attempted a 2:50 send-off. But I tried, and held for a couple.

Or today, PR'd a 2 mile t-run. That is what I can do with my lifestyle now, short-course fun stuff.

Keep it fun. Last weekend, St. Patricks Day, the masters swim coach (Silverman RD) held at his house, a St. Pat's 3 mile beer run. You drink a beer at the start, then each mile another. No spilling allowed. It was a blast. I told him that was the most fun I've had at a race in years.

Keep it fun.

good luck Chip,

Conrad

Triathlon and depression - connected?

Not for me, but I can tell from some of the threads here and in particular the Ray Britt story that for some/many this may be a reality. I feel deeply sorry for people that have to deal with this. It must be a very challenging situation. Some of the posts over the years from some people here on ST, have sounded very troubling and I do wonder what dark forces are motivating or affecting these people. I must confess, I am never really sure what to say in these situations.

Personally, in an overall way, I have found nothing but joy, happiness and fullfillment with my life long involvement in sport -I realize this sounds corny, but it's true. There have been a a few down times( the odd ill timed injury and the big melt-down at IMH '93), but for me there is no happier time that when I am out training, standing on the starting line or in the middle of a race. At those moments there is no place that I would rather be. If nothing else, the training and racing have been an escape and a time to be on my own from time to time and think pure and uninterupted thoughts.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Haven't read every reply, but a couple that mention the fact that triathlon tends to draw addictive/obsessive personalities is likely worth noting in the overall picture.

For me, it's lack of training that contributes to any depressional (hey look, new word!) tendencies or feelings I might have---and conversely, if events in my life are starting to become suffocating, in the past I have escaped that with training.

But overall I would say that a direct link between training for triathlon and depression would be a stretch---with the caveat that there's a bunch of us that do have lots going on in our personal lives that could cause depressive feelings....if that makes any sense...and just because we're triathletes doesn't mean that training was the cause.

....except if we continue to hammer away excessively at training in the face of whatever might be going on in life. At that point it would seem external pressures of peers and family members wondering what the hell we're doing training when "x, y and z" are going on could cause someone to feel the weight of that pressure and have it turn into depression...?

Just some rambling thoughts.

Good luck with this, Chip. You are correct in that there are more folks here than we might think/admit that have experienced varying levels of clinical depression....

I am not so sure. The number of PM's that I have seen that are "me too" or "I am also on this or that med" is just to many. I am thinking that many of us may do Tri cause we dont know what we would do if we didnt. I have to run - but I have more quotes (I will never say who said what) from PM's and thoughts about what I have seen and felt.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Don't get me wrong---I believe that many people here are on some sort of med or suffer varying degrees of depression, I'm just not sure (and speaking completely as a lay-person here with absolutely zero book knowledge of psychology) that triathlon training is the cause or is a connection with great significance....most likely a fair representation of the population at large.

Again, just shooting from the hip on this one.

I would caution drawing conclusions based on PMs. Given how many people are actual registered users of ST and lurkers, I would believe that the number of PMs would still be a small percentage of the ST users, and would probably mimic the percentage of incidents in the general population.

I don't discount that many people have related closely to what you are going through. Probably many more have not even been aware and responded. But I don't think the triathlon is directly linked to depression. Too many other compounding issues are involved. To say so would lead many of these people to the wrong conclusion or diagnosis or possible path of recovery.

Take care and be strong.

Chris

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Chris
*********************
“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,

I think the hardcore Type A personality usually associated with dedicated athletes of any kind (but especially those of us crazy enough to stack three together) is very conducive to depression. I know a lot of crazy ultra-runners and triathletes, that's for sure.

Looking to find a connection between triathlon training/racing and depression is kind of missing the point, no? Rather than seek validation of that (for whatever reason, who knows), how about defining the hypothesis to why people who obsessively pursue anything to the exclusion of all (or many) of life's other rich moments are perhaps more prone to depression?

Probably because the same people would be prone to depression no matter which particular pursuit they took up, and ST attracts many who have already gone far beyond the need for healthy exercise, so that would seem to explain to me why Chip is discovering such a preponderance of depression and meds here. Not because the relationship is triathlon-specific--but because it is "excess"-specific.

Hey, obsessive Cubs fans (Chip are you that, too?), Packers fans and assorted other sports team fans are also prone to depression for putting all their eggs in one basket. So are many artists and writers. So are perfectionists, no matter what is their current object of desire.

Just as a diet rich in variety and moderation is viewed as good, so is a life rich in variety and moderation, but if one must pursue a passion to the nth degree, one needs to be extra careful to stay in balance by periodically removing oneself from the object of passion.

So instead of wondering why is triathlon seemingly making a person more prone to depression, instead try asking what is the intrinsic nature of the personality type that pursues triathlon to such a degree that they base their life definition of happiness on it?

Anyone who works full time 40-60 hours per week and stacks on top of that a hobby that requires another 15-25 (which is reality when you consider the costume changes, extra showers, travel to training/racing, extra sleep, etc.) hours a week, and it's like you are back in college constantly cramming for exams. Of course that sets you up for depression. Exercise in true moderation (about an hour a day) does provide all sorts of benefits without all the added stress of planning, training, planning training, racing, planning racing and such. It's like we've created a whole other life that we are trying to manage. No wonder it can wreak havoc with our psyches! Exercise in moderation is stress-relieving; constant competition and many hours of training probably create as much if not more stress as they relieve, unless one keeps it all in perspective.

But some manage to do it, and do it well, and some don't. There is no shame in saying, "I am not mentally strong enough to handle my 50-hour per week job plus another 25 hour per week commitment to a hobby." So if occasionally you aren't able to handle all of that at once, step off for a bit or step off permanently and know that doing less does not make YOU less.

Thank you for all your insight.
You're amazing.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Yeah, what she said.

<very well written>

I have found that "setting my sights low and frequently achieving them" also applies to my search for happiness in my life...

For example, I always find a smile in the pure poetry of TC's sig lines.

Brad

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3SIXTY5cycling.com

Man, your essay was about the best I've read here in a long time.

Taking a step back is sometimes the absolute best thing to do. Make sure it is fun or what's the point? To re-examine oneself in all aspects of life reveals things that are sometimes not good. And those are the points of life to make changes upon. For yourselve and the others around you. For the better.

You are in the area...how do I meet you again? Not some freak airport meeting...

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Hey, Chip.

Drop me a PM!

One of the beautiful things about triathlon is that it attracts highly intelligent, energetic individuals like you and many who frequent ST. When you discover there is a whole community of people like yourself, it can be very intoxicating. But we must not lose sight of who we are while we engage in something that involves so much doing. We are not what we think; we are not what we do; we just are.

When we (and this has been a lifelong struggle for me, too) are too focused on the thinking and doing, we lose touch with ourselves--a hallmark of depression. When we're depressed, we don't like ourselves, much less the rest of the world! In depression we become even more caught up with the failure of our thinking and doing to bring us mental/spiritual relief, as at the onset of depression, warning signs include an inability to enjoy DOING things you normally enjoy and an inability to THINK clearly and rationally about your true state of being. Sounds like a taper, right? Tapers are self-induced potential depressive episodes, if you ask me. Which is why I'm extra careful to take care of ME when I'm tapering, because it's easy to fall into a pattern of distorted thinking.

At least that's my philosophy...

My mentor is a man who meditates about 3 hours a day (and he happens to be my massage therapist--I will refer you to him if you like). THREE HOURS A DAY!!! It was interesting when we met that we looked at each other like lunatics--how can a person TRAIN so much is what he was thinking, and how can a person MEDITATE so much is what I was thinking? And then we realized we are very much alike, as to an extent, my training IS my meditation, or at least ideally that's how I like it to operate.

Anyway, he encouraged me to try meditation, and I fought it and fought it. After all, meditation is a method for turning off the brain's thinking center (or an attempt to, anyway) in order to get in touch with that "self" that is inside each of us, that doesn't judge, that doesn't need to do--effectively, stepping away from your own ego. Instead, I've been able to incorporate smidgens of true meditation, recognize when my ego is getting the better of me (and I don't always win that battle!), and focus more on being present and being able to "watch myself" as much as possible. This does not mean I have lost my silly sense of humor or drive to excel or seemingly wide mood swings (emotions are fun, no?) or penchant for being well-dressed, love of puns, etc. In fact, by going with what's happening more of the time, I've found I can enjoy the things I love even more. But since there are so many of them, I am eminently aware of the need to "put things away" every now and then, and find that (just like in triathlon training), I don't really lose "fitness" by stepping away from something.

There is a way to be slightly obsessive and yet not fall apart at the seams when your own attempts at bringing yourself back to center are failing. That's why I recommend that book "Going to Pieces without Falling Apart." When you can learn to look at yourself and your actions as if standing apart from yourself, it becomes a tool that you can use regularly when your ego is interfering with an otherwise healthy life. Doesn't mean people won't punch your buttons (just last week I let go a filthy diatribe on a motorist who nearly ran me over, and I thoroughly enjoyed delivering the tongue-lashing!), doesn't mean you won't experience pain and disappointment--just means you become better able to put those things in perspective.

fefe,
nice series of posts. I, too, have found meditation to be very helpful in stepping away from the ego, as you accurately put it. It's amazing how cluttered and conditioned the mind can get during the course of daily life. It's quite dramatic when you stop and allow youself to become aware of the process.

Finally, after years of sturggle, I sought help from a psychaitrist and was diagnosed as being depressed and suffering from anxiety, panic disorder, and obsessive compulsive personality disorder. Triathlon, and running before that, are both helpful and hindrances in that.

Athletics, esp. competitive athletics, can be a boon in that activity realses all those endorphins, keeps me in good shape, gives me something to focus on etc. But on the other hand, it simply feeds my anxiety and obsessoins... "I have to do X"... "I have to do Y"... "I failed at Z"

I am on Lexapro, with the occasional Klonopin and Ativan as a buffer.

Feel free to PM me if you want to chat--I truly have been there, and still am, for that matter :-)

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