Thanks for the thoughtful responses, and for the others as well. Of course I was trying to be controversial, but it is a valid question to ask.

The real issue that prompted my post could have been framed as:

"Does anyone think it's time to have an Ironman World Championship (rather than just inviting a few internationals to the current USA Championship)?", or

"If this thing is supposed to be a WORLD Championship, does anyone agree that fairness could play a bigger role in the selection policy?"

The thing that might bug me a little if I was from the US is that Kona is becoming a two-tiered race. Qualifying from anywhere other than the US is seen as a real achievement, but from the US, who knows?

When 40 of them can't even finish the thing, when the overwhelming majority of those walking while midnight approaches are American, when Americans can qualify at a regional US half IM, when 75% of the lottery spots are exclusively reserved for the 4% of the world that is American, when WTC drops the ball again on establishing IM China while opening USA franchises faster than Wal-mart, each with a bunch of qualifying spots (provided by reduced international spots) then the notion of a "World" championship is compromised and I think the achievement of every American in being there is potentially compromised as well.

Trends in recent years show that this is becoming MORE true, not less. I understand that IM is a commercial enterprise, it's not the Olympics. I perfectly understand how WTC can make more money with less headache by throwing together as many North American races as the market can bear, rather than dealing with the complexity of running an international enterprise. Perhaps they'll find value in offering high-priced Hawaii spots at a new series of 35.15 races, or team events, or a reality TV show. Who knows? I don't expect their interests and my preferences to align, but personally I find it a shame that they have pursued a policy that makes Hawaii an American, rather than a world, event, with hundreds of participants being Americans who would not be there under an equitable selection policy.

This is no criticism of ANY individual who has raced Kona. Everyone takes the qualification (or lottery, or Ebay auction) process as they find it, and does their level best to get there.

Hypothetically, though: remembering that IM is a business: If a Chinese corporation with deep pockets bought out WTC, (I'm sure it's available at a price) and redesigned the series to ensure that most of the World Championship spots went to Chinese nationals (and virtually none to Americans), that the military category was exclusively open to the PLA (complete with Chinese war heros being honoured at the awards ceremony) etc, etc, I expect that there would be fairly widespread opinion in the US that that mightn't be the best thing for our sport, although, for a non-American it would not be very different from what exists today.

agree with what you say to some degree, but my question is "why wait for the US to put on your World Championship?"

if this is a great idea that would generate massive amounts of international goodwill in the sport of triathlon, why can't a german, a french, an australian, a canadian or a chinese sports marketing corporation grab the bull by the horns and kick off your style of a true world championship?

don't wait around for the US to hold your hands and show you how to do things - get out there are create something out of whole cloth. hell, we gave you a pretty good model to follow, now go improve on it.

(otherwise we in the US might start to think that you lack initiative and creativity - hmmm?)

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

well...in the spirit of the OP...let's take the pseudo-Worlds aspect that is WTC and IMH out of the equation.



ITU LC Worlds is in a little under 3wks. in Canberra. and while there may still be some qualifier-slot inequity based on GDP, #nukes, or god-knows-what, it certainly won't be on the scale of the USA-IMH overload. if the athletic trends opined by you and others hold true for a 2/3 - 3/4IM distance race, the home team ought to be sweeping more than a few AGs.



and if they don't, you (collectively) got some splainin' to do.



Carl - hardly a threat to spoil any M35-39 sweep, but toeing the line at Lake Burley Griffen anyway. wife and I honeymooned in Cairns-Whitsundays-Tasmania ~7yrs ago and this time we're coming back with the kids...you've been warned...

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Carl Matson

<<<"agree with what you say to some degree, but my question is "why wait for the US to put on your World Championship?">>>"

With respect, I'd have thought that was obvious. WTC would successfully sue anyone that tried. They sue anyone who has an unauthorised Ironman any-damn-thing. I think starting an unlicenced competing Ironman Triathlon World Championships might get them a little riled, and set their lawyers tails a'wagging.

ITU are an aggressive bunch of pricks to cross as well. I'm old enough to remember when Australia's World Cup Triathlon was the best event outside Hawaii, before the ITU even existed. But when ITU decided to make their ambit bid for control of the sport they successfully intimidated the promoters who didn't want to spend every spare day and dollar in court, so the event folded.

Besides, I love Ironman. I'm the old-fashioned type who think it represents real triathlon. I'd love to see a genuine Ironman World Championships, with the best pros and age-groupers from around the world. It should be in Hawaii, nothing else quite acknowledges the history of the sport. It doesn't need to be put on by Americans, I suspect it could be better done by others, but lawyers at 20 paces has always been a dull sporting spectacle.

It should be in Hawaii, nothing else quite acknowledges the history of the sport. It doesn't need to be put on by Americans, I suspect it could be better done by others, but lawyers at 20 paces has always been a dull sporting spectacle.

fyi, Hawaii is in the USA, in all likelihood it will always be run by an American entity.

rather than sitting around pissing and moaning, start a long distance triathlon race, an ideal world championship, with distances not exactly the same as Ironman and come up with another name. tell all the really fast people that your new race is the "true" world championship. hold it on a beautiful island in another part of the world. if you have enough like minded people who don't consider Kona to be the World Championship and think that the qualification is unfair, then you will have a very successful race.

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

I'm not sitting, nor pissing, nor moaning. I enjoy many great events around the world, including Hawaii. For most triathletes, Hawaii is special. I'd love to see it be the best it can be, including "fair". You're welcome to disagree.

I've even been known to comment on what I'd like to see the UN do. I figured I had the right to. I'll stop now, though, because I'll be busy starting my new planet where the countries co-exist peacefully. Your not-at-all pissy, moaning post has inspired me.

Bone,

Around here (US of A) it's considered easier to qualify for worlds in Oly, Long Course and Duathlon. And those are supposed to be more "purist" examples of a qualifying process. What gives with this slagging of US Kona qualifiers?

I think part of the reasons that you see so many AG'rs slogging their way to an all-night finish is that, once the qualifying spot is in hand, lots of folks take a half-assed approach to their Kona preps and make it a nice vacation. Prepping for a qualifying race is taken seriously, because there is a prize to be won. Lots of folks then realize that they won't be anywhere near the podium in Kona, and so don't race that hard.

Sure Carl, it will be interesting to see, although most of the top triathletes from Oz and everywhere else do Kona, and not the ITU wannabe race.

As I explained above, though, (despite my subject header) my main point was to show the effect of an inequitable selection process for Kona.

The crapness or otherwise of American triathletes can be well demonstrated anywhere. Hawaii is just designed to make it appear worse than it is.

"Around here (US of A) it's considered easier to qualify for worlds in Oly, Long Course and Duathlon."

Of course. Around here, too. I suspect more so.

"once the qualifying spot is in hand, lots of folks take a half-assed approach to their Kona preps and make it a nice vacation."

Yeah, that's what I did. It's so hard to qualify in Oz that I couldn't possibly train as hard again. I was in Kona for the experience and a family holiday. But I was still one of the last Oz qualifiers, yet in the top quartile at Kona. There is an obvious reason for that, which you are ignoring.

I'm not slagging the qualifiers, I'm commenting on the qualification process, and its predictable consequences. Look at what rocco and d.w.weston wrote. I agree. Kona is not a meritocracy, and not a genuine world championship. It is a commercial venture that assesses its returns to be maximised by offering preferential opportunities to Americans who wouldn't otherwise be there. I certainly don't criticise those who take up that chance - who wouldn't? But everything I've ever done in sport in my entire life tells me fairer is better. Nothing anyone has written convinces me that Hawaii is an exception, if it seeks to bill itself as the world champs. I understand and support the lottery system, but it should be equally available to all. I understand and support spots for challenged athletes, I'd like to see that extended. I understand and support some preferential spots for Hawaiian residents. I understand and support having a few e-bay spots as charity fundraisers. Beyond those exceptions, why does the notion of fairness and equity upset so many?? One thing I have always admired about Australians in sport and in business is that they are not afraid of a fair contest. Make it fair, and they'll take on the world at anything. I had always thought that Americans shared this trait. Does it not?

One of the reasons may be to give undue representation to slacker countries like Australia. For example, your post, with demeaning generalized comments about Americans, is allowed to stand, but a similar posting about aussies is yanked. Just want to refocus the perspective - if aussies were better than Americans at everything, hell anything, then the term "Australia - world's lone superpower" wouldn't yield such laughter.

Hey yeah i just noticed that other highly entertaining thread has disappeared......

Did someone start to cry.....?

if it was yanked it could be in response to the super high quality of that thread....

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kiwipat

per ardua ad astra

Possibly... okay.. let's keep it OT and get back to talking about how good Cervelo's are and why the IM finish time limit shouldn't be lowered to 14hrs, coz that won't allow me enough time to walk the finish chute with 13 family members, my dog, the cat, 2 budgies, 3 somalian refugees i sponsor thru world vision, my kinesiologist and my chiro..............

ummm...neither can you from your "rental car" post in the other forum :-)



Dear all,

I apologize in advance for this not being a politycal post, but here it goes.

Even though I don't own a car here in the US, I sometimes rent cars for short periods. Because I don't have insurance, I have to buy insurance from the rent-a-car companies, which is more expensive than the cost of the car!

So I was wondering if there's a way to do this cheaper? Like buying cheaper insurance somewhere else besides the rent-a-car companies?

Thanks in advance for your help.

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Paulo Sousa

pstriathlon.com

It was a joke!

And I sincerely hope you speak and write as well as me your second language. And how's your french and spanish, btw?

;-)

Stick it up 'im P-Dawg !!!