One of the keys, IMO to Cervelo's early success is that they were able to put their bike underneath some very good regional pros, who were in the results enough that their name was out there. e.g. Eric Wohlberg rode the P2 at the Atlanta Olympics and the 1998 Commonwealth Games, which got the folks who were looking at new bikes at least aware of the brand. You can produce the greatest bike in the world, but if people aren't aware that you make it and that it is "good enough" for the pros or top AG'ers, then you are screwed.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Personally, I tend to avoid the me-too carbon bullshit frames coming out of asia. Also, what's the point of selling direct if it's not custom or made-to-order?

To answer your two questions directly....

1) I am mainly driven by the desire to have the best frame possible for the least amount of money. This calls for a manufacturer which spends very little on sponsorships or ads OR deals huge volumes to drown out that cost. Because I also like unique bikes, I go with the first.

2) Your business model will depend on your goals. If you want to be low cost, high volume, then go with an internet sales with a couple of bikes. Check out www.pedalforce.com. Leader is another example mentioned. Try to get a cult following of "non-bike shop" people to buy and ride your frames and then rave about them on the internet. Look at www.bikeforums.net. Pedal force is doing a group buy with them for 100 frames ($550 frame/fork) for their new all carbon model. They will get a ton of the bikes on the "voice of the internet" market and the associated free press of discussion on forums and make a little money doing so. They are building their name brand up in the e-bike shop market.

yep-
The me-too carbon bike is sooo done. I was at interbike, and for the first time I got bored with looking at generic TT bikes. Oh look another carbon bike with steepish geometry with a rear wheel cut out! At that point, I enjoyed looking at the MTN offerings way more. At least you have different interpretations on how to solve a problem.

The bike has to have an edge, just being cheap isn't going to cut it. The people who want cheap will go for a $200 Leader (which is a good bike).

Good luck - E

1) My number one criteria: PRICE. If I can't afford it, why the hell am I looking at it? Case in point, check out the thread on the 600$ p2ks. They sold like hotcakes.

2) Aesthetics: geometry/material are all dandy, and people have plenty of pre-conceived notions, but if you make something that people drool over, you've got a good head start. When I was looking for my first road bike, I looked around and 90% of bikes were BORING. Awful, awful colors and 1960 style fonts. I saw Guru, knew they were made in my neighborhood and decided to go with them.

There's a reason people pay huge premiums for custom paint jobs.

3) A face to a name. You've got to have someone knowledgeable answering questions. I *hate* it when I send an email to a company and never get a reply. Curt replies are obnoxious too. Gerard, Frank Day are good examples, but for instance, there's this guy at Sugoi who replies to all my queries with great enthusiasm and detail that I always feel bad not getting Sugoi stuff. Service costs $ but it goes a long way. I think its one of the things that can differentiate a me-too product to a big company.

I am very loyal to my LBS because of their service.

4) Personally, getting a pro on a bike does nothing for me. (Well, I have to admit, I did know Simon W won on a Guru before I bought mine.) But seriously, I think word spreads pretty quickly on this forum and others if good, expressive people ride your bikes. Don't give it to people who write "I hate xxx bike because its stiff, but someone who gives an honest critique of what works and what doesn't.

I guess overall, my chief complaint with road/tri bikes are that they are not affordable. Like people have said, for some, bikes are their 3rd most expensive purchase next to a home and car. That's pretty ridiculous in my mind considering the incredible depreciation they suffer. I train with a club of university students - most of whom are very talented (winning their age groups) and most, riding used or low end 8 speed bikes. If we consider the recreational rider as well, I don't think a four digit figure should be what people have to spend on a bike.

My lbs is small. Their primary business is comfort bikes and mountain bikes for kids - having to stock x bikes from certain companies is not feasible. On the other hand, if you supply one bike for stock and lower their minimum quota, I think some shops would be willing to take the risk.

If you're going to sell direct, make sure you don't rip us Canadians off with shipping. I refuse to pay 50$ duties + 50$ brokerage fees + 50$ taxes + a ridiculous 50$ shipping fee. Know how much it costs and post it.

Presently online there are many many many Taiwanese companies trying to sell their frames directly in the United States just like you're trying to do. 90% of them are made in mainland China and sell for $400-600 USD. It is a very tough market to crack, as they also have very little loyalty to their distributors.
Mike Fraysse

Hi RawOne-

I am taking a marketing class right now, so let me see if the $4k I am spending on this crap is of any value to you. Two fundamental questions . . . is the market for carbon bicycle frames growing? and what is your firm's competitive advantage? I'd also like to note that what you mention is an ADVERTISING strategy, not a MARKETING strategy. You need to think in terms of the benefits you can provide your future clients and how you are going to reach them in an economical manner.

First, since the market for carbon bicycle frames is growing (at least I believe it is), this probably means you don't have to have a competitive advantage for the short term to make profits, but you still need one for the long-term.

In terms of competitive advantage, this does not need to be a technological advantage in your framesets (you obviously won't have one), but it needs to be somewhere. You mention trying to under-price everyone else and selling direct -- frankly, this strategy sucks if you really want to build a business. If you want to make a decent salary for a few years before having your business run into the ground, I guess go ahead.

So I would recommend that you segment the market and figure out where needs are being under-served or what benefits customers are looking for in their purchase process that they may not even realize they want. I guess the typical way to do this is to look at the resources you have, what benefits you can create with these resources, and how that corresponds to features in the bike or buying experience that your target market wants.

So anyway, I don't have any great ideas off the top of my head . . . sorry. I think there are enough triathletes on this web site that you could come up with a decent marketing survey and try to find some holes in the market. I'm sure they exist. Overall though, my advice is to try to find a way to differentiate your company on something other than price. Always think in terms of customer value and how you are beating your competitors on features/experience/etc.

Let me know if I can be of any use in your project.

Eric

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

I don't consider this as an abuse of this forum... but the forum may abuse you :)

If you are thinking about using this forum to promote and market (something that I think is a good thing) realize that you are operating with some high quality people selling high quality products:

Gerard, Emilio DeSoto, Frank at Renn, Herbert, Gary Tingley, Frank Day, & Tom Demerly... (there are several more but I just can't think of them right now) These people give the impression they'll step up and take care of their customers. Things break but nothing will put you in freefall faster then not taking care of your customer.

Each of these people has influenced my purchasing decisions, past, present, and futurer, because of their involvement and continued positive engagement with this forum inspite of some unwarrented critical comments concerning self promotion, duh, it's business. They've brought more to the table then they've taken.

Good luck,

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Jay

Building a dealer netwrk does not require as money as it does energy to get on the phone and dialing.