There have been several discussions here on that subject. Do a 'search' and you will find lots of opinions.

Take TI..you will look good in the water, but still be slow. You will look good doing it though.

(Or save money, join a Masters program and get faster)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

TI can be a big help with your swimming. I just don't think that it is the best use of your time and money. A workshop is quite expensive and they give you a lot of info in two days them turn you loose. I think you would be much better off working with a local swim coach for the amount of time that the money would allow.. I think that one or two lessons a week with lots of practice in between would serve you better.

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

If your swimming is terrible, TI is the place to start. that's what I did and it made a dramatic difference.
Once you have 1-2 years of good form drilled into you (and TI is all about drills), then pursue a masters program.

I like the TI DVD. It helped me a ton. That said for $500, I would get 10-1 hour sessions from a good swim coach. If you go once a week vs one weekend, you're going to retain a lot more of what is thrown at you.

I agree with Ezra. I took lessons from a swim coach who was well versed in TI. TI works, but, the coaching is better money spent. Learn a little at a time, practice, get evaluated next lesson. Better than blowing your wad in one weekend with no follow-up later.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Exactly! And you can hang out with cool Masters dudes!

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

When I first started getting interested in tris, I couldn't swim 100 yards without breathing hard. I took TI and it did wonders for me. That season I completed my first half IM. If you have no clue about position, balance, etc., then I would 100% encourage you to take it. You will learn to swim with very little effort and no distance will be too great.

Now, with that said, once you have learned what they teach you, you need to go somewhere (masters group) that will teach you how to go fast. TI is all about economy of effort, but your times won't drop if you rely solely on what they teach you. It took me two seasons of similar swim times to realize I had the fitness, but not the speed.

In sum, if you really suck, take TI. If you have a clue about position and how to "balance" in the water, buy the DVD and find your nearest masters program.

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I proudly DO NOT post my workouts on Facebook!!!

What was your time? What did you pay? What is the local Masters fee's? Hmmmmmm.......

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

IMO, you're thinking about it incorrectly. I currently swim with a Masters group and there is no way that I could have even gotten in the pool with them if I didn't have the fundamental understanding of how to swim. Like I said, if the OP knows the basics about swimming and doesn't currently swim "uphill" then he should pass on TI. If, however, like most people, inlcuding myself, he is dragging his feet, lifting his head and all the other nasty things poor swimmers do, then I think there's a tremendous benefit to be gained by taking the TI workshop. The Masters program coudl be free, but it doesn't mean that TI isn't money well spent if it helps you. As I said, I wouldn't take it now because it's of limited value, but it did what I paid for and therefore was value added. I don't know if you've taken TI, but if you haven't then you're opposition to it seems unfounded (kinda like if I said "Cervelo sucks" w/o having ever ridden one). No question Masters groups help tremendously but they are not all things to all people.

As for my times, the time itself isn't relevant. What is relevant is the fact that if I hadn't taken TI, I wouldn't have been able to swim the distance and, therefore, wouldn't have had a time at all.

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I proudly DO NOT post my workouts on Facebook!!!

If your in NY the New Paltz TI swim studio has a wed night freestyle class. They are doing the swim clinic in four one hour sessions. Really good class and has helped my swimming quite a bit. I am slightly faster but not thrashing randomly and turning left as much.

I think the TI teaching technique is sound but I think the weekend workshop is flawed. They spend two days teaching drills you could learn on your own before the class, or at least in an hour or two. Then we did one length using full stroke freestyle the whole weekend, which is where you need the most help. I went home being an expert at the TI drills, but it is very difficult to convert this to real world swimming without additional help. IMO, TI workshops should work with smaller numbers of athletes, and spend more time with full stroke swimming. Most people I know who did the workshop don't end up using much of the skills learned there. I talked to a local swim coach who said most of her private lessons were with people who attended TI workshops and were then goofed up with their swimming. If you live in a city with TI coaches, you could do the workshop and then plan on getting one-on-one lessons afterwards.

Chris: I don't want to speak for R10C (because I could be missing his point), but, I think he and I are in agreement, for the most part, on this one.

As I stated in an earlier post, I took lessons from a swim coach, who was well versed in TI. The next season, I took a stroke analysis class, which was a 1/2 day version of the full TI workshop (and only cost $100), which included video of my swimming.

IMO, coming from zero swimming background, learning the fundamentals of TI was invaluable. However, IMO, TI cannot be learned in one weekend. So, spending the $500 (or more) on a swim coach, rather than a TI workshop, seems to make much more sense. The coach will teach you TI, let you practice a bit at a time, and evaluate your progress over time, and make corrections. You do not get that at TI.

The stroke analysis class was great for me b/c I received a detailed analysis of my form after spending a year using the TI techniques learned from the coach. However, someone brand new to swimming probably needs much more work than a weekend workshop.

Then, move on to masters swim.

Just my opinion.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I agree. Anything someone tries will help.

Now, depending on a masters program, this may be better bang for the buck. At least with the masters I swim with, they give some coaching, and we have totally different level of abilities. So, if I had a person who could not swim, I would take them to a few master workouts for free, and see how they could progress with the coaches inputs, and other swimmers. If there was going no where, then it would be TI, or a personal coach.

I know I watched the TI DVD, and it had some great stuff, IMO. I just dont see the skills they suggest being different from what I am using swimming now. (This may show how bad a swimmer I am.) But, things like extending, rolling, etc. seemed to all be there. They dont seem to talk about the catch, high elbow, and pull, but they dont talk much about that in my masters stuff either.

Everyone is different. The more inputs I get, the more I can see what works the best for me.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I'm kind of torn. I couldn't swim more than a length or two in October 2002, I took a TI weekend clinic, spent that winter religously doing their drills (occasionally working with a TI coach) and in June 2003 I completed an Ironman without much difficulty (although my 1:30 swim was pretty darn slow). TI gives you comfort in the water but I believe it engrains a slow, gliding, pause filled stroke. Even 4 years later it's very hard for me to overcome it.

TI has some good aspects -- IMO it does a good job of teaching balance, position in water, and is probably a great idea for those who just can't get comfortable with swimming but I hesitate to recommend it for someone that wants to be a fast swimmer. Just my personal opinion, but I'm a pretty poor swimmer so take it for what it's worth.

So assume you've taken a couple of the TI workshops and are terrific at the "slow, gliding, pause-filled stroke." Like always among the last dozen out of the water (but at least you're doing it). How to get out of the slows, glides, and pauses? Individual non-TI coaching? Or just suck up being lousy at masters' and join anyway?

I also went with a coach vs a weekend course. I couldn't swim more than 4 laps of a 25 yd pool without getting winded before taking some 1 on 1 instruction, here in New York City, from a TI instructor, Fiona Laughlin. (Terry Laughlin's daughter) Now, after 4 hours of instruction, spread out over a month, with lots of practice in between, I can get through a 1.5k swim leg in a race, (I've done 2 so far plus a .5 mile in a sprint) admittedly, still slowly, but I can swim it and come out in good condition for the bike.

If you're in NYC and you need a well qualified TI instructor, you can find out more about Fiona through her web page here:

http://www.myspace.com/fionalaughlinswim

(Sorry I can't make the link active; I'm on a Mac.) [/frustration]

I also bought the video, but having a live instructor is MUCH better, if you are near one, and can afford it.

I still wouldn't feel sufficiently competent to join a Master's group; I'm practicing on my own for now.

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I proudly DO NOT post my workouts on Facebook!!!

"I know I watched the TI DVD, and it had some great stuff, IMO. I just dont see the skills they suggest being different from what I am using swimming now."

This is the thing that has always surprised me about some, even most, of the "TI Bashers". I've gone to several clinics and recieved "Advice" from many "Swimmers". Alot of the start out with "I don't agree with TI" and then proceed to tell you to do some drill that is almost exactly the same as a TI drill. For the most part 90% of what other coaches/swimmers have shown me is the same as what TI teaches. I do agree that TI never goes into much on the arm position, catch etc.

As far as the OP. I agree with others. Skip the 500$ weekend thingy and either spend the money on a technique oriented coach or just buy the DVD/Book and do the drills. For the most part if you even know someone that has done TI they can give you fairly decent direction or feedback on if you look right doing the drills.

Also as others have stated, TI will get you the basics, but you'll need someone on deck giving you direction and alot of yardage to actually get anywhere...at least in my experiance.

~Matt

I have spent a majority of my coaching in the past 5 years UNDOING TI from peoples brains. It seems even the most ignorant of swimmers has heard of TI. Congrats to Terri and CO for expert marketing and putting information out there. I am serious about that too, he and TI have done wonders for getting people in the water. He has also done wonders for local physical therapists and swim instructors like myself.

At this point, having read all the posts and people are all offering good suggestions, I will offer this. Find a local swim instructor who works with kids. Ask them to help you. Usually people who work with kids are very good at development(see also aquatic therapists if there are any near you). I don't want to go too deep on this here, but watch kids playing in the water. You can really learn a ton. What your arms and legs do is really very simple. We have seriously over complicated it...more or less out of safety.

Work with that instructor and have that person work with you as if you were a kid. Doing bobs and breathing and floating etc...with little worries about forward movement. Then go to a masters program. If that masters program will not allow you to work at your own pace, then find another one. Don't be intimidated by the swimming culture of BLACK LINE FEVER, as I call it. If you want to chat more about it, I am happy to share and expand. Just dont want to bore everyone here with my take on this.

all the best.

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http://www.theundergroundcoach.com