Yikes. I figured 254 watts would be good for a 4:3x. The poor lad needs to swim faster in order to bike faster.
Off to the pool, young man!!! ;-)
Triathlon Forum
Login required to started new threads
Login required to post replies
Re: Power data shows 7m drafting zone isn't enough [Rappstar]
[ In reply to ]
Yikes. I figured 254 watts would be good for a 4:3x. The poor lad needs to swim faster in order to bike faster.
Off to the pool, young man!!! ;-)
Re: Power data shows 7m drafting zone isn't enough [Ashburn]
[ In reply to ]
"You just don't have a 2000+ person head-to-head race and pretend it's non-drafting. This is exactly why the Olympics refused to allow non-drafting triathlon. There is no such thing at the elite level."
Great point.
My thoughts are the total-no-drafting purists are barking up the wrong tree. What they really need to be petitioning for is some form of limited race field time-trial start. Agreed, that in the context of the current big 2000+ people races of any distance, this is impracticle, but, if you want to be pure this is what they should be arguing for.
At times and places on the course in these huge mass start IM races there is NOT room for a 7m zone, how could there be room for a 10m zone?
Fleck
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Great point.
My thoughts are the total-no-drafting purists are barking up the wrong tree. What they really need to be petitioning for is some form of limited race field time-trial start. Agreed, that in the context of the current big 2000+ people races of any distance, this is impracticle, but, if you want to be pure this is what they should be arguing for.
At times and places on the course in these huge mass start IM races there is NOT room for a 7m zone, how could there be room for a 10m zone?
Fleck
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: Power data shows 7m drafting zone isn't enough [devashish paul]
[ In reply to ]
[reply].... I am not sure how much of a draft anyone would get 7m back of FM2.0,....
Dev[/reply]
I tried to keep with him into a head wind, although I was on a road bike, no such luck. He punches a pretty small hole in the wind. His back is so flat. He is, however, pretty damned muscular, but even that didn't help me.
_________________
Dick
Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Dev[/reply]
I tried to keep with him into a head wind, although I was on a road bike, no such luck. He punches a pretty small hole in the wind. His back is so flat. He is, however, pretty damned muscular, but even that didn't help me.
_________________
Dick
Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Re: Power data shows 7m drafting zone isn't enough [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Timed starts for the elites is an interesting concept. Do the mass swim, and log finish times. Then, send people off in order of swim finish, at 1 minute, plus how far back you finished the swim behind the leader. The draft zone is 25m.
Come into T2 and wait till everyone is in. Fast swimmers (and bikers) get a bonus by being able to rest longer before the run. When everyone is in, start the run by releasing runners in order of total bike+swim time, with intervals based on time behind the leader. That way, you still get a head-to-head run finish. Ultraman does its run finish this way.
Yes, it's a whacky idea that wouldn't work for huge fields.
Re: Power data shows 7m drafting zone isn't enough [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
What happened to the stagger rule for pros? I would think that 7m back AND on the other side of the lane of the rider in front of you would be about as effective as could realistically be hoped for. Simple, effective, and easy to enforce. Why did they get rid of it?
Re: Power data shows 7m drafting zone isn't enough [Ashburn]
[ In reply to ]
I have done a 50mile TT at under 250 watts (ergomo) and averaged about 24mph and was told my time was worth a 1:58 on a quicker course. I am around 69kg and 70cm I would say my postions was a good triathlon postition my compaired to the pure Time Trials not that low. Whats the speed/power return like at Kona as I would also have thought that 254 watts would have ment a quicker time?
Re: Power data shows 7m drafting zone isn't enough [Ashburn]
[ In reply to ]
[reply]Yes, it's a whacky idea that wouldn't work for huge fields.[/reply]
Yeah, probably unwieldy for the whole field at IM but it would be interesting. Although Memphis in May has a time trial start with 1700 people for olympic distance plus strong officiating, resulting in what seems to be a pretty fair race. I've heard people complain that not knowing where your competition is is another form of unfairness, but I think that's a bit of a red herring - you should race as hard as you can anyway, because you never know who is coming up from behind - you can't see their calf until it's too late...on the swim age groups are sometimes bundled, so you don't really know where you are there either. You could still fit everyone in 17 hours (and the pros all in daylight) if you did some clever seeding of the start.
Of course in addition to the M-Dot logo, the finish picture with time displayed is part of the perceived value of the accomplishment...whether splitting into waves or adding a TT start element, you'd probably need to come up with some sort of chip-driven auto-adjusting clock (or photoshop script - should be easy enough considering what they can do with superimposing ads on baseball backstops during live broadcasts these days)...there's already a finish clock problem with the pro head start and fast age groupers finishing ahead of women pros before they reset the clock. On the other hand nobody seems too concerned about the clock display at the big half IMs. Maybe just don't include the clock in the picture, just print the time along with the name of the race in the caption. I think I'd prefer the photoshop or auto-clock though...I kinda like the clock in (some, not all :-) of my IM finish shots.
Not that any of this will ever happen, but it's amusing to wonder who the fastest really is in the race of truth sense.
Yeah, probably unwieldy for the whole field at IM but it would be interesting. Although Memphis in May has a time trial start with 1700 people for olympic distance plus strong officiating, resulting in what seems to be a pretty fair race. I've heard people complain that not knowing where your competition is is another form of unfairness, but I think that's a bit of a red herring - you should race as hard as you can anyway, because you never know who is coming up from behind - you can't see their calf until it's too late...on the swim age groups are sometimes bundled, so you don't really know where you are there either. You could still fit everyone in 17 hours (and the pros all in daylight) if you did some clever seeding of the start.
Of course in addition to the M-Dot logo, the finish picture with time displayed is part of the perceived value of the accomplishment...whether splitting into waves or adding a TT start element, you'd probably need to come up with some sort of chip-driven auto-adjusting clock (or photoshop script - should be easy enough considering what they can do with superimposing ads on baseball backstops during live broadcasts these days)...there's already a finish clock problem with the pro head start and fast age groupers finishing ahead of women pros before they reset the clock. On the other hand nobody seems too concerned about the clock display at the big half IMs. Maybe just don't include the clock in the picture, just print the time along with the name of the race in the caption. I think I'd prefer the photoshop or auto-clock though...I kinda like the clock in (some, not all :-) of my IM finish shots.
Not that any of this will ever happen, but it's amusing to wonder who the fastest really is in the race of truth sense.
Mark ... good to see you on the island!
As you know i agree w/ your point ... especially after what i saw at the 25 mile mark of the bike. You can't even compare "apples to apples" from that race. i think there are a few diffeent groups racing there now:
1 - Those who are in the position to play "the peleton game" and do so without conscience.
2 - Those who are in the position to play "the peleton game" and choose not too (you and Rob for example)
3 - those who aren't even in the position to play "the peleton game"
Travel safe mate ... see ya soon!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
As you know i agree w/ your point ... especially after what i saw at the 25 mile mark of the bike. You can't even compare "apples to apples" from that race. i think there are a few diffeent groups racing there now:
1 - Those who are in the position to play "the peleton game" and do so without conscience.
2 - Those who are in the position to play "the peleton game" and choose not too (you and Rob for example)
3 - those who aren't even in the position to play "the peleton game"
Travel safe mate ... see ya soon!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com