I disagree. As with everyone else who has been wrong in this thread I'll ask for a citation although in your case it will involve a time series and variance analysis over time.

What's Occam's razor say about a guy who consistently singles out minorities and dark skinned foreigners to belittle and attack?

That you don't notice he belittles and attacks everyone due to his thin skin?

i have faith in we the people, because those who believe in liberty usually prevail over those who believe in tyranny, avarice and the like. americans were divided into loyalists and patriots; then later into those who fought to retain their slaves or to free slaves. then a century later we fought the same war again, just with politics instead of guns. americans have always been divided into those who are on the right or wrong side of history. sometimes progress isn't always better, as with prohibition. but generally, viewed through the prism of the founding fathers, it's clear what the right side of history is.

trump isn't on par with the last 2 presidents, as you think. trump is our nativist. our racist. the destroyer, if he can, of independent courts, separation of powers, the free press. are you certain you're on the right side of history?

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Come on man. There is no way I am buying that Trump thinks those 4 were born in different countries.

I'd bet not once in your life, or any time in the future, you have told anyone to go back to where they came from. The only people who would say that are unbashed racists who are confident in their racism.

You don't have to fight this fight. It isnt insulting to him. He is fine being a racist. If you were in his DOJ he'd be tweeting at you that no, he meant the brown people are inferior because he is sure they are.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I'm not being a prick but how much do you know about Woodrow Wilson because you just described him? Yet here we are still free to piss and moan.

What do you mean about right side of history? Thinking Obama, Trump, and Bush in a macro view are about the same? No one will know if Trump is a good President for at least 20 years same as every other president. (I'd list out my rationale but I don't want to be accused of "deflecting."

I buy it because i see him not caring or bothering to learn before firing off his streamof conscience tweets.

Well there are some Canadians.....

I'm not fighting anything just pointing out a few things. He very well may be a racist but the point I was making is the whistle blew and the frothing began with talking points without actually processing what he tweeted.

If he actually tweeted that about brown people that would be racist.

I've been told to go back to my country multiple times, including a few times by several of the colorful characters on this forum.
My wife (Latina, born in the US) has been told similar stuff, by Trump fans.
Trump is a racist (we have many years of data), a xenophobe (also many years of data), and an incompetent asshole. And I'll put every person that still supports him in the same fucking boat, and they can kiss for foreign born ass.

Well if you weren't such a condescending Frenchman with a pencil mustache, beret, and smoking Gauloises......

Oh and happy Bastille Day. My francophile neighbors are flying the tricolor

you're not being a prick by mentioning wilson because you're right. he was, simply put, a racist. and, look, one can admit the good and bad in a president, or anyone else, if one simply tells oneself the truth. i'd like to think wilson wouldn't be a racist now, as he was a century ago, but we don't know. trump knows better, a century later. and you certainly know better.

what we also know about wilson is that, alongside his racism, and his segregationalist policies, were a lot of other things he did as president that speak well of his tenure. if we rank presidents according to, say, their achievements in clean air and water, and the environment, nixon ranks quite highly.

trump is an abject train wreck as a president. mind, he is quite successful as a dictator but we don't have those. he tries to be one anyway and he has a skill for it. but when you look at what our country stands for, our values, our strengths, our institutions, our relationships, he's taken a wrecking ball to it all. if you're outcome-driven, and you like certain outcomes, i'm sure you like him. but our country has never been built around outcomes, but processes. if you don't understand or value our sacred processes, then perhaps you don't mind that this is what's under relentless attack. do you know what those processes are? do you value them?

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Wait, who is it you think he tweeted about?

You are allowing that since he referenced the " 'Progressive' Democratic Congresswomen", who we all know who he meant and who are all non-white, instead of actually referencing their race when he told them to go back to where they came from that is what makes it not racist?

I heard no whistle. I read his tweets. Since I am the one who posted about this in this thread you are saying that about me. I don't need someone else to tell me that what he said is racist. I am able to see that myself. How? Because he said something that only racists say.

Now I am left trying to figure out why you are deflecting from he said. Trying to obfuscate and split hairs to distract from his blatantly racists tweets. I processed it just fine thank you very much. I read the whole thing. Then I read it again because I couldn't believe he just said it. Before I read anything else at breakfast this morning.

So your point is what? That I can't read Trump's racist tweet from his own Twitter account and see that it is racist without someone else telling me it is? Nope. I figured this one out all on my own.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Wilson was a racist but the processes you passionately defend he pissed on. He would be a pig in slop with the NSA, warrantless wiretaps et al. Point is the Republic survived him just as it will survive Trump.

How is he an abject train wreck? He's uncouth, crude, and inexperienced but the economy is fine and we aren't fighting a new foreign war. What has he done that is so objectionable that hasn't been done in the past from a purely office of the President perspective? (And not just your memory but historically)
Checks and balances in government are functioning (arguably better than Bush or Obama vis a vis executive orders being nullified). You want a train wreck... Andrew Johnson. Trump in 100 years will be Chester Arthur aka inconsequential (barring some new developments). Let's hope he doesn't want a more pronounced legacy. You remove your personal animus towards him I believe you could see that.

You said this If you were in his DOJ he'd be tweeting at you that no, he meant the brown people are inferior because he is sure they are

I said if he said that it would be racist.

Confused as to what the issue is.

So has any republican congressman repudiated these trump comments yet?

I hate to face this, because you seem a decent guy, but when I asked you if you understood America's sacred processes it's apparent you don't. Which is why you like and defend him as president. I understand you don't necessarily like him as a man. But your defense of him now makes sense. Yes, to answer your earlier question, I have faith in the people. But I don't have 100 percent faith in THIS people. This generation, so many of whom don't know, probably never knew, never had any grounding, in civics.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I thought you were talking about the original tweet. Which was about 4 non-white people and was most certainly racist on its face.

But then you went on the say it was people responding to some sort of whistle. I didnt respond to a whistle. I responded to our president's racist tweets.

The issue is I cannot for the life of me figure out why you, if you aren't defending him, are fighting this fight to figure out some way to get around finding these tweets as definitive proof of his racism. As "go back from where you came from" when directed at non-white Americans is said exclusively by racists.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Wrong. My son is currently deployed to Iraq and our government classifies him as being in a 'warzone'. This is his 3rd deployment to Iraq and the status while there has not changed.

I am pretty sure i am not misunderstanding this. You're saying that that any single aspect of Trump's behaviour can be matched from history by a behaviour of an individual predecessor. Which may or may not be right, but skirts around the concession that Trump exhibits all of these flaws all at once. That must axiomatically make him an order of magnitude or two worse than any predecessor.

And the bottom line is that the US will survive him, so don't fret.

I would have thought that even the staunchest Republican would want for a higher standard than that.

I'm an American born Veteran and I feel the same way.

Pray tell what process am i missing?

I'll denounce it. What an idiotic thing for the President to do. Someone in his cabinet .. give him something to do .. and keep his stupid thumbs off the twitter machine. Those congress people, AOC/Omar/Tliab mainly, are doing a perfectly fantastic job making everyone hate them all on their own! Then unpresidential dimwit crazy Donnie has to chime in and remind everyone that he wants to be most hated.

Leave them alone. They'll have no problem F'ing it up themselves.

That's a very peculiar application of Occam's Razor. You admit that he may well be racist. He's exhibited patterns of racist behavior going back at least 40 years. Says a blatantly racist thing today and your explanation is that... he's confused about his target's birthplace? OK then. I thought there would be an explanation with even fewer assumptions.

It's telling that we're trying to ameliorate by debating if it is xenophobia or racism. As if it matters.

It's also telling that it feels like yet another "just ignore the old racist grandmother in the corner, she don't mean no harm!". We also do the same thing as we would with the racist grandmother in the family "oh, just stick to the narrative and ignore the crazy outbursts".

Both lines of thought are pretty bad.

Is the cute little experiment over yet? Have we had fun? Can we roll out ANYONE instead of big T in 2020 since you could probably put up a potted plant up against the Democratic party and win anyway? Independent sneak attack?

Trump's next move, straight from page 1 of the Donald J Trump How to Deal with Women Playbook. Double down, never back down, never apologise, never admit you were wrong. Always ramp up the rhetoric, ramp up the accusations. Recruit an anonymous sector of the population who are said to share your view.

It's not even one-dimensional.