Many are quick to refer to the Rae government as a reason never to vote NDP again


The NDP platform (Federally) is to increase tax on small business from 15% to 19.5% and to increase the taxable capital gains from 50% of the capital gain to 75%. It is their fundamental belief to increase taxes to pay for MORE social programs which the country just can't keep doing. The percentage of elderly in the country is going up meaning a bigger burden for those working and the NDP just wants to keep throwing "freebies" around. Free or low child-care, heavily subsidized education, expanded healthcare (drugs) and the list goes on and on and on.


They believe that it is government that can solve problem and is the answer to all problems and I believe the complete opposite. I think we should be dramatically reducing government, we don't need them in every single aspect of our lives.


The leader of the NDP doesn't matter, it is their basic belief in socialism that, at least for me, is the problem and why I and a lot of others will simply never vote for them.

Did you watch the debate tonight? Wynne was by far the most experienced, articulate and politically savy, but her time is done. Doug came off as an empty suit used car salesman promising the moon while at the same time offering a 20% tax cut with no specifics on how this was going to happen. At least Horvath was honest. Guess I'm holding my nose and voting NDP. The debate did nothing to make me change my mind.

The biggest problem with the NDP isn't the $1.4 billion error in their maths. We all know they will run an enormous deficit, increase taxes and throw money around like drunken sailors. Rather, it is Horwarth's position that back to work legislation is "very much against our values".

If Horwath gets in the risk is that all of her union cronies will get much fatter, while companies shed jobs by relocating from Ontario (as Magna has already indicated it might) and strikes hold everyone else hostage for extended periods.

I'm not saying you're wrong to hold your nose and vote NDP, I just hope it's a minority government you get so that the other parties can hold her to account.

As an aside, when all is said and done, I would love for there to be a debate about whether Ontario now needs (and would support) a completely new, fiscally responsible but socially progressive political party. It seems to me this is what the majority of us are looking for (centrist - left or right depending on the issue - and led by someone untainted by historical politics and with enough awareness to explain their logic). As the advance polls open I continue to be amazed at the lack of basic common sense amongst each of the "leaders".

At this point I am convinced that the idiots in this province will vote in the NDP. So I will probably vote PC really just as a hope that there is some opposition to the NDP and their free spending.

No, I don't want Doug Ford to be the Premiere. Yes, I will accept some blame if the PCs win a majority and run the same shit show that we are seeing in the US.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

So I will probably vote PC really just as a hope that there is some opposition to the NDP and their free spending.

No, I don't want Doug Ford to be the Premiere. Yes, I will accept some blame if the PCs win a majority and run the same shit show that we are seeing in the US.


In theory the Westminster Parliamentary system is set up so that you can do that - vote for your local representative if they are good and hold your nose when you think about the Party Leader.

But to do this you have to do two things:

1) You have to go to your local All Candidates Meeting, and find out what that local candidate is all about and that you have confidence they will be a good local representative

2) You then have to ride-herd on them while they are in office, with non-stop eMails to the point that you are a PIA.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Option 3). hope that the NDP get a minority with the party you vote for being the opposition. And knowing that they will make it difficult for the NDP to be as stupid as they will likely be with a majority.

Option 3, part two). Hope that the PCs get a minority and that the NDP make life difficult for them.

Basically at this point, I want to see a minority government. I don't want either of these leaders to have free rein.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I'm not saying you're wrong to hold your nose and vote NDP, I just hope it's a minority government you get so that the other parties can hold her to account.


My sense is that is where we are headed - either PC's or the NDP with a minority government and the Liberals holding the balance of power.

It may not be such a bad situation - it will force the wilder elements of both the NDP policy and the PC policy (which we still don't know, but a good assumption is mass cuts to jobs/services - despite Doug's lies on this), to a more moderate situation.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Did you watch the debate tonight? Wynne was by far the most experienced, articulate and politically savy, but her time is done. Doug came off as an empty suit used car salesman promising the moon while at the same time offering a 20% tax cut with no specifics on how this was going to happen. At least Horvath was honest. Guess I'm holding my nose and voting NDP. The debate did nothing to make me change my mind.


Agreed all around.

Wynne "won" the debate, but it will matter little. The dislike for her and the Liberals is visceral. I don't truly understand that. He "sorry/not-sorry" opener, kind of summed it all up. There is baggage. The debt is a concern. And the following is not meant to be a patent endorsement of the Liberals, just a realistic assessment - in some areas, the province is way better now than it was 10 years ago. Transit is one area, where they have REALLY stepped it up. We have a LONG way to go on this, but things are REALLY happening now. Business wise, despite Doug's lies and wrong, info, Ontario is NOT the basket-case that he makes it out to be - most key economic metrics are very good right now. But again this will all matter little on June 7.

Doug Ford put in another performance last night that, makes me shudder, that this man could possibly be the Premier of Ontario in a few days! He's so far in out of his depth it's crazy. He continues to lie, ramble, rant, blunder and bluster along. To reward this sort of incompetence and incoherence to me seems absurd!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Definitely hoping for a minority government. A PC or NDP majority would not be good.

Option 3). hope that the NDP get a minority with the party you vote for being the opposition. And knowing that they will make it difficult for the NDP to be as stupid as they will likely be with a majority.

Option 3, part two). Hope that the PCs get a minority and that the NDP make life difficult for them.

Basically at this point, I want to see a minority government. I don't want either of these leaders to have free rein.


Yes - and I sense that's where we are headed, which is OK - probably a "better" situation than people realize.

It will be fascinating to see what Doug Ford does in either out come - Leader of the Opposition or Premier with a minority Government. Doug will hate both. He does not have ANY of the skills that would make it work - diplomacy, outstanding communicator, balance, flexibility, compassion, able to give-and-take.

That's if Doug even makes it that far. Apparently, he's not polling well in his own riding! It's taken a while, but finally the people of North Etobicoke, seems to be realizing that the Ford family, politically is a bit of a farce!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Yeah, I'll believe that when I see it. I expect Ford to win his riding.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

My favorite Ford Meme - https://twitter.com/.../1001095074913058816

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

doug absolutely hated being a city councillor, for godsake. why on earth would he enjoy being a minority leader? it's all so procedural - building consensus, cooperating, compromising. . . this is the stuff he hates and is very, very bad at. in that respect he's like his brother, or trump - doomed to discover that the CEO mentality simply doesn't work very well in parliamentary democracies.

in fact, opposition leader might be the best job for him, since he'd largely be able to spend his time yelling at clouds (and potholes) without actually have to do much.

but if the conservatives were to lose the election and wanted - as they ought - to spend that time in the wilderness rebuilding their bench and getting set for the next big push, doug would not be the right man for that job.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

He's like Trump in that way. Does anyone think that Trump enjoys all the details that he has to learn whilst president? He wanted to be in charge (or maybe in Trumps case he just wanted more publicity). Anyway, Doug Ford just wants to be in charge.

It wouldn't shock me if he resigned if he doesn't become Premiere.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I agree. My comments about Bob Rae being not so bad relate to him being in office at a time when he could not run much of a deficit spending program. My understanding is his finance minister went to New York was told they wouldn't lend him the money.

Andrea Horvath clearly is okay about increasing spending in a big way.

Hoping we have some sort of minority gov't and have a reset in a year or two.

We continue to not build capacity within the non-gov't sector and within families to take care of things. It will end badly when gov't can no longer deliver.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Watching Ontario politics right now is like seeing a train wreck in slow motion.

You guys are completely fucked either way.

As someone living through our current ndp disaster, I feel for you.

The scary thing is, how do we combat this March to less and less desirable candidates and parties? What's the solution to Ford/trump/theatrical politicians who cater to idiots of our world?

Canadian politics is in a bad place, and its only going to get worse.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Seems to me that our choices are always HYPER POLITICALLY CORRECT vs. ass clown who panders to LCD vs. the spendoholics.

Yay choice!

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

It's truly frightening. I was thinking about this yesterday. I feel like politics in Canada is an ugly tide that as individuals we cannot stop from rising.

Here in BC, the ndp has taken a lot of measures that directly hurt me. They are coming down hard on businesses and landlords, because you know, they are all privileged and flush with cash, yadda yadda. Definitetely not hardworking young families that are sweating their bills, taking risks, not taking vacations, etc.

The number of people who expect government to fix everything is only rising. I'm strongly wondering if it's just time to stop just grumbling about the change and accepting it, and find some way to take advantage or monitize it, but I don't know what that looks like.

I just feel like change is afoot and traditional ways of making a living, like starting a business or being a landlord, are only going to get more difficult.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

i dunno, i think these things go in cycles. other 'traditional ways of making a living' include public-sector work, like education, health care, or the military, and those jobs have gotten more difficult under various governments over the years too. tough to please all the people all the time, especially when you're not in a cooking-hot economy. . .

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Build an alley house!

Then at time of completion value whole property through a legit assessor as “primary”

Lock in value at say 800k$, switch full use of property to “rental”

Then if market drops below locked in value you still have a cap loss, but also likely made a tax free profit.

2c, that’s what we are doing up here. Agreed that the NDP is really going to f$&k our economy.

Maurice

Is it worse than the SoCreds in the 80's ?

I was 6 years old at the end of the eighties and not following politics too closely, so, I couldn't tell you.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I'd hate to think of Doug Ford with a majority government. There is already an orange haired buffoon in charge south of our border so why would we want something similar in Ontario.

Agreed that the NDP is really going to f$&k our economy.


I lived in BC (Vancouver) in the 1990's ('91 - '01). A great 10 years for me personally, but I was completely dismayed by BC Politics. The NDP was in power for much of that time. Premier Glen Clarke and his NDP Government, was one of the more inept politicians and Gov'ts that I have ever encountered. BC seems to be about pendulum politics - they go from one extreme to the next, never really figuring out that most people want governments to govern from the middle - on average Canadians are moderate kinds of people - but in BC they really do swing wildly from one side of the political spectrum to the other.

The sign for me about this craziness came early. I think it was '93 and we had that second national referendum. BC voted at the same level as Quebec to want to "leave" Canada!! Coming from Ontario, this came as a bit of a shock to me!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Here in BC, the ndp has taken a lot of measures that directly hurt me. They are coming down hard on businesses and landlords, because you know, they are all privileged and flush with cash, yadda yadda. Definitetely not hardworking young families that are sweating their bills, taking risks, not taking vacations, etc.


NDP Politicians perhaps because of their union roots, constantly use the words "working people" - don't we all work? Unless you are so wealthy you don't have to work, retired, or a student, you are working, and earning a living.

I must confess as a career salesperson and now self-employed and running my own business, I've often clashed with this union kind of attitude towards work - my whole life I've had to hustle HARD for every dollar, I've made. I get up every morning, and know that I, and I alone have to MAKE THINGS HAPPEN - if I don't, I don't get paid!

I do resent the fact that many NDP politicians as you have pointed out think the self-employed have it really good, that we are somehow swimming in cash! That's NOT the case. My wife, and I and our respective businesses, while we do OK, we would actually be making MORE money if we went back into the "regular" jobs, you know, like the "working people", that NDP politicians constantly refer to. But I really have no interest in going back to that.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog