LOL - Great cartoon


This started with Rob Ford then on to Trump and now Doug Ford - politicians who wear their ignorance "proudly", and at the same time slamming, anyone who might actually know what's going on as one of those evil "elites" who are wrecking and ruining everything!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Have you read Doug's latest take on the minimum wage. Clearly the guy has no concept at all of basic math.

https://globalnews.ca/...imum-wage-plan-math/

Have you read Doug's latest take on the minimum wage. Clearly the guy has no concept at all of basic math.


This weeks foot-in-mouth moment for Doug was his pronouncement that, to lower the price of house in the GTA, he's open the Greenbelt to development. Then he went 180 on this less than 24 hours later - saying, "the people have spoken" and he'll maintain the Greenbelt lands.

Doug tried to turn this into the fact that he's the great listener and in contact with the people, but it actually shows, a key bad tendency of his, that he'll say, anything to anyone, at just about any time! That when backed into a corner, he just makes stuff up!

The avoidance of the media goes on, going so far to produce their own "Ford Nation TV", with a fake reporter (a former Ford Press Secretary), asking completely softball questions, with an all platitudes approach. Doug said they had to do this because the media was not giving him a fair shake. The media reports on what Doug says/does - when he's lying, making stuff up, being a bully and belligerent, and they are just reporting on that, what's not being fair?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I trust you are watching the leadership debate? Wynne is embarrassing herself, and the audience applause is telling. She is a disgrace.

Did I just hear that right? Only 14 people out of 5,500 polled thought Wynne won the debate?

Sure,BUT just the Ford name itself is even more disgraceful. His bro was a fucking joke and so is he. He’ll win though. That’s just politics and human nature. Folks are tired of 15 yrs under the same party rule. A monkey and ape could lead the other two parties and one of em would win.

We are definitely plumbing the depths. I just cannot agree with the Liberals fiscal mismanagement and deceit. I like Horwath’s social platform, but it is all rainbows and unicorns without a proper accounting.

I think we have to change the title of this thread. If he wins the election we can change it back to Doug Ford wins. I keep having to remind myself every time I see it that the election has not happened yet.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Done

I'm 99% sure he will win but Ontario will certainly be more careful next time for what they wish for. Weird times in North American politics these days.

Did I just hear that right? Only 14 people out of 5,500 polled thought Wynne won the debate?


Yes, I watched it all.

Crazy format, that was distracting and all over the place.

There is a visceral dislike the Kathleen Wynne - some of which I understand, and even certain things the government is doing that I'm not happy about. However, on some files, the Wynne government has made extraordinary strides. Take transit - FINALLY in the GTA we are moving forward with substantial Public Transit initiatives. We still have a long way to go, but you can say that it's better now than it was 5 - 10 years ago!

Yet to prove how wacky this debate was, the format and how things are going, when asked via a Twitter poll which politician would, "make your commute to work better", Doug Ford scored 46%, and Wynne was in the teens!! On transit Doug Ford is a disaster. He really has no idea what he's doing/saying. The only time that he's been in elected office, he cancelled the Transit City plan for Scarborough, and he and Rob Ford were responsible for 30% cuts in TTC bus services. Just several months ago Doug was factually on the wrong side of the King Street Pilot project. Doug won't say it, but he's anti-transit and pro-car.

For long stretches of the debate Doug was disconnected and lost. When cornered it was slogan time "finding efficiencies", "No back-room-deals", "Hydro-One boondoggle" . .etc . . He just says these things in a Hail Mary attempt to come up with an answer and it makes him look bad.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I agree Ford was a horrible debater. Surprisingly bad in fact. Stilted and awkward until he was speaking directly to the camera.

I also agree that transit in the city is moving forward. But I disagree that is it due to Wynne. As mentioned before Metrolinx was McGuinty, and a lot of what is happening in the city (like the King Street pilot you reference) is Tory. It is Tory's ability to work with all levels of government that is seeing progress get done.

Take the Downtown Relief Line for instance. I live in Leslieville so attended the Morse School public consultation as the line is set to pass under it from Eastern to Carlaw. They were very clear on three things: (1) people want the work done NOW; (2) ground would not break for at least two years; and (3) that ground may not break at all because the province had been withholding the funding. Sure enough, the next day Wynne pops up on TV promising to underwrite the costs. It is undoubtedly an election bribe but Tory was in the background so good on him. He's getting her back for blocking his plans to put tolls on the DVP to pay for transit.

My fear of course is that things get cancelled after the election. I agree that Ford is pro-car and (I think) loathes cyclists. But I seem to remember him and his brother loving subways as part of their pro-car platform and actually wanted more buses (not less) as a means of eliminating streetcars (which get in the way of their cars). Ford indicated last night that he would upload the responsibility of the subway design and build to the province. That is huge.

Finally, I agree that the format was crazy and especially when CP24 kept on interviewing Jodie Emery, the noted pot activist from Vancouver. She doesn't even live in Ontario and pitting her alongside a social activist and transit activist was hardly impartial.

I watched and as a PC party member kept asking myself how it came down to having Ford as the leader. There were some well qualified PC candidates who could have been infinitely better. It's like the GOP nominating Trump, what on earth were they thinking...

I agree it is like we are in some kind of alternative universe. I seem to recall I guy named John Tory running in the provincial election the same one who is so successfully running Toronto. Couldn't get elected.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I agree it is like we are in some kind of alternative universe. I seem to recall I guy named John Tory running in the provincial election the same one who is so successfully running Toronto. Couldn't get elected.


It's an overused phrase, but "timing is everything", sometimes in life, business and politics.

Doug Ford, is incompetent, unqualified and ill-suited to be the leader of a political party, let alone the Premier of Ontario, but in a month's time, if nothing changes, or dramatic happens, this will be the case.

Doug's timing and benefit is that at just the right moment he caught the Ontario PC Party in complete disarray in the post Patrick Browne debacle, and his and the PC's main opponent, Kathleen Wynne and the Ontario Liberal Party after 15 years in office, are well past their Best-Before date. There is a visceral dislike for Kathleen Wynne that is palpable.

When you take the global measure of Ontario politically it trends to be a bit left of center. The longest serving governments in recent times have been Bill Davis's PC's - and the McGuinty/Wynne Liberals. While they came from different parties both Davis and McGuinty/Wynne stood in about the same position politically - left of center.

With the election of Doug Ford, this is a radical, and abrupt swing and departure from that historical position. People are so fed up and angry, that they really don't seem to care who will be Premier - even someone like Ford, who has the potential to be far, far less than optimal and not really aligning with the provinces historical political position - voters don't seem to care.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I agree Ford was a horrible debater. Surprisingly bad in fact. Stilted and awkward until he was speaking directly to the camera.


Agreed.

For long stretches of the debate, Doug just stood there silent . . saying nothing . . which was probably a good thing (for him). I'm sure the PC Debate Prep team pounded it into Doug . . when in doubt - say NOTHING, and ONLY say these 5 - 6 set things. DO NOT, under any circumstances go off-script or message or let yourself be drawn off by questions from Wynne/Horvath or others.

That being said there were a few moments where Doug got into a bit of trouble and veered into the weeds. He did say that there would be no job cuts when he is Premier (Really??). He also said, that there were no job cuts when he was at Toronto City Council - but that was wrong/a-lie. His best line of the night was about how Kathleen Wynne's government has all the records in the first 5 pages of the Guinness Book of Records after Doug rattled off a bunch of statistics - that were all wrong! And then he seemed to find $5billion in his pocket, as he walked into the CityTV studio for comprehensive transit building in the GTA - not sure where that came from, but as usual, when pressed for more details on where/how for that $5billion? - Doug had no answers!

Because of the crazy and chaotic format it was really hard to pick a "winner". I scored it - Horvath as a win, Doug lost some ground as did Wynne.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

This is what I think makes it so interesting. You've seen such voter disenfranchisement play out in Europe and the United States. Now it seems to be happening here. Ford is about as aligned with the traditional PC party as Trump was with the traditional Republican party, so assuming Ford becomes Premier the question will be the same as when Trump took office - will his election bring about a new political course or will it be an extreme reaction to what went before and limited to one term (or less)? I hope for the former but strongly believe it will be the latter.

will his election bring about a new political course or will it be an extreme reaction to what went before and limited to one term (or less)? I hope for the former but strongly believe it will be the latter.


Winning the election will be the easy part for Doug. Remember when the going got tough, on policy and details at Toronto City Council . . Doug either got very combative and negative, or checked out completely!

Also - despite what he says, Doug has no where near the 100% support of the Ontario PC Party. The Party is fractured and divided now all over the place - and Doug is no unifier!

It's setting up to be a fractious and disruptive, 4 years - that's if Doug and the PC's get a majority. Current polls do suggest this, but I'm guessing there will be a big Doug Ford blunder somewhere along the way, and Andrea Horvath is presenting well, (with rising poll numbers) as a place for disenfranchised Liberals to park their vote - so we could be headed for a minority government situation. This actually might be the best outcome - We'll get some "change", but, Doug, will be constrained in what he can do. Doug won't like that at all, and he will get easily VERY frustrated by all the bureaucracy involved.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

The tactics are getting worse as actors were hired to play the part of PC supporters at Monday's debate rally. A Toronto-based PC candidate offered actors $75 to be present from the start of the rally at 2pm to the end of the debate at 8pm so $12.50 per hour. I thought our minimum wage was higher! In Ford's defense, he (said he) wasn't aware of this situation but I find this extremely inappropriate and downright offensive.

Here's the full story: https://www.thestar.com/...ys-debate-rally.html

@Kid

The only glimmer of hope is I don't think Ontario Conservatives are wedded to Ford like Trump's base is wedded to him.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I think there are a significant amount of folks in Ontario, especially rural Ontario who are REALLY tired about hearing Toronto and their problems and are also really tired hearing about Wynne and the perceived boondoggles she has created/inherited. Same thing with Trump. There were a lot of people who were just sick and tired of everything the status quo was offering and finally said eff it. That sort of thought process got us 4 years of NDP leadership in Ontario too.

Who the hell would do that for only $75? That’s messed up. I’d need at least $500 for my soul.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I live in rural Ontario, in a rural riding that traditionally votes Liberal both provincially and nationally, although it can be close and is not always the case, although mostly. But don't assume all people in the boonie rural ridings are automatic conservatives.

I suspect Doug will win, but most likely will be a one and done term government just like Trump. Remember you heard that first from cerveloguy. :-)

I think there are a significant amount of folks in Ontario, especially rural Ontario who are REALLY tired about hearing Toronto and their problems and are also really tired hearing about Wynne and the perceived boondoggles she has created/inherited. Same thing with Trump. There were a lot of people who were just sick and tired of everything the status quo was offering and finally said eff it. That sort of thought process got us 4 years of NDP leadership in Ontario too.


Mark,

I understand the feelings of rural folks - election and political talk in Ontario tends to be GTA-centric. However, the adult conversation about this, if people are willing to have it and at least listen, is that the GTA represents about 25% of the economy of the whole of the country and over 50% for Ontario.

Poor planning at both the provincial a federal* level on Public Transit, has left the GTA probably about 30 years behind where it really should be. Only now are we starting to move forward on some desperately needed key pieces of infrastructure.

*Here's another political dynamic, that I've been told about by a friend who has been an elected MP in Ottawa. No Federal Politician in Ottawa wants to be seen to be doing Toronto/GTA any favours - such is the anti-Toronto feeling across the rest of the country. Take sports infrastructure. Toronto/GTA has per capita terrible sports infrastructure. The PanAm Games helped with a bit of that "debt", but cities like say, Regina, have better public sports infrastructure than Toronto because, it's OK, for federal MP's to approve funding for outdoor basketball courts in Regina, but NOT in Toronto/GTA. The attitude across the country is Toronto/GTA has everything! Which is wrong, AND it's 25% of the national economy!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I suspect Doug will win, but most likely will be a one and done term government just like Trump. Remember you heard that first from cerveloguy


Well we knew this was coming, and today the final piece of Doug Ford's Impossible Economics was put in place . . a tax cut!

So to sum this is all up, what Doug is promising/saying: Tax cuts - corporate & individual, billions and billions in extra spending on transit & healthcare, no jobs/services cuts, pay down debt/deficit and do ALL of this by finding "efficiencies" in government spending! He's said all of this in the past few days. If you believe it, you believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus!

I really don't know how people can be so easily duped. Hardcore Ford Nation people will stop at the Tax Cut and go, "Whoo-hoo, thanks, Doug", having no idea how the rest of it would work - and it won't, it can't, it's Impossible Economics! When pressed Ford fans - will quickly go, "Wynne's a crook". (Ford supporters seem to love Deflection having no idea what it is) I honestly don't know where that comes from, but at least Kathleen Wynne is being honest about it all - they are NOT hiding the fact that they plan on running a deficit. I'm not a big fan of that - but at least it's not like Doug's Voodoo, Impossible Economics!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog