so the old "I don't know what I'm talking about but I'm gonna make a strong assertion" assertion?

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Steve

The Daily Beast cited Brenda Spengler as the first real school shooter in the modern era of such activities. The events you cite were few and far between and had a variety of other input factors.

It appears to me as if you are trying to blame the gun solely because it is a gun and that its magical appearance in our lives has effectuated this seeming rise in school shootings. I agree that it probably has made it easier for some to carry out their evil deeds , but even a cursory examination of the range of school shootings over the last two decades would seem to indicate that there were quite a few demons that drove most of these shooters and that we as a society could have done something to preempt them.

There were a variety of pathologies and issues that these school shooters suffered from. Also, it's not really certain whether any of these people should have been allowed to possess a firearm in the first place.

But, again, we seem to put blinders on when it comes to society's and culture's role in this phenomenon. As well as its duty to step in and do something about it.

At this point, I would just say to the people advocating for more gun control to just admit that they don't want anyone to possess a firearm. I'm fine with that position coming from them. I might disagree with it, but it is a more honest position then I've been reading out there on various media sites.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Wow, where'd that come from? I'm talking about your inability to understand stats and correlation, and you go off on that?

Here's the thing: let's say that 100% of mass shooters is mentally ill. That says nothing about the likelihood of a mentally ill person becoming a mass shooter.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

You seem to have not read my post very carefully if at all or are simply not relying to me.

Actually they were not that few and far between. And the causes are much the same. "A boy who refused to be whipped by his teacher left the school. The next day he returned with his brother and a friend for revenge. Not finding the teacher at the school, they continued to his house, where a gun battle took place and three died. Only the original boy who initiated the attack survived.[17]"
That sounds an awful lot like this week.Except it was 1868.

I am not blaming the rise of guns. If anything I am saying that guns are not the cause of school shootings/violence. What I would say it that it is much easier to kill 17 with a semi-automatic rifle than it is a muzzle loader or 6 shot revolver.

This is not new, yesteryear's society and culture had to deal with it too.

There have been more n the last decade, no doubt. But I don't think society has broken down any more in the last 10 when compared to the 10 - 20 years before that. I would postulate that it is more copycat kind of behavior than societal decline.

I have said the exact opposite in regards to gun control.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

From Politico
https://www.politico.com/...dministration-348968

School safety money would be slashed in Trump budget


Two days before the school shooting in Florida that left 17 dead, the Trump administration proposed cutting millions in federal education programs meant to help prevent crime in schools and assist them in recovery from tragedies.


Funds targeted for reduction or elimination in the Trump administration's fiscal 2019 request have helped pay for counselors in schools and violence prevention programs. Such funds were used for mental health aid for students and teachers in the Newtown, Conn., school district following the deadly shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in 2012.

Well is this money helping ? riddle me that. Using the left stats on the uptick of school shootings, I would have to conclude no.

steve, i think my post was pretty respectful. i don't think it was insulting, or nonsensical. i don't feel i need to understand the physics of climate change to hold an opinion on climate change. i don't need to understand the physics of ballistics to know who to trust. climage change? climate scientists. the danger of certain kinds of ammunition? i'm content listening to what law enforcement has to say about it.

if you want to continue to make the comments like you made that i quoted above, fine, but i can only assume that it stands in place of a reasoned argument.

i am only a gun owner, but i am not a gun enthusiast. if you want to be a gun enthusiast, that's fine, as long as you're not a mayhem enthusiast, which i don't think you are. if you have a reasoned solution to combat the mayhem enthusiasts, fine. i'm willing to listen. if your response is just to insult, as your last few posts have done, also fine, but i'll talk to gun enthusiasts who know how to fashion a reasoned response.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Such funds were used for mental health aid for students and teachers in the Newtown, Conn., school district following the deadly shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in 2012.

High suicide rates don't correlate with high suicide rates everywhere. As I posted earlier, Japan has a much higher suicide rate than the US, and yet they have very few guns in that society.

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

You Sir are the master of the disingenuous post

At a personal level you've been so since our brief meeting in the bike rack area of Kona when you gave me a very curt and snarky response to my simple query of "hi are you Dan?" No way you would remember nor should you. Still very revealing to me as to your nature.

Not that you will do so but if you look back upstream you will see that where serious discussion occurs i offer serious input. It might not be what you agree with but it's there

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Steve

next you'll get something really snarky with a "hey if you cant take it, this is a rough and tumble place" flavor. Classic!!

haha Dan is just an asshole who pretends to be a nice guy

i don't need a safe space

parents of those kids who did not come home yesterday do need someplace to find peace tho

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Steve

Of course, but Japanese culture is an outlier, right? One could say that "American" culture is also, but I would argue that we are in the midst of a great cultural divergence.

Everything on that list, except gun deaths, is actively looking for solutions to prevent them.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

interesting and sort of agree if i think you're getting after what i think you're getting after

expound on--as you can--this cultural divergence?

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Steve

I applaud the ardency of your zeitgeist

I mean weapons that can quickly shoot, for example, 30 rounds, not pistols with what, 8 shots. Yes, police empty their guns on suspects but it is not typical, from what I have seen, where they are constantly reloading and shooting again.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Perhaps, but there are many countries that have higher suicide rates than the US, with many of those having more restrictive gun laws and a much lower rate of gun ownership:

http://www.businessinsider.com/...cide-rate-map-2014-4

France, Finland, Belgium, the Czech Republic, etc....all higher than the US. Interestingly, some of the countries with extremely high gun homicide rates are quite low on this list (some of the central and south american countries).

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

My pistol carries 16 rounds, and the reload time is about 2 seconds if I do it right.

Fine but I don't agree with the need for that type of weapon. It's my personal opinion and not something I'm forcing on anyone. However, if our government wanted to pass a law preventing that type of gun, I would not disagree.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Confiscated!!!!

It has many facets. secular/religious, urban/rural, globalist/nationalist, liberal/conservative. There has always been cultural differences, but several recent factors are widening them (media bifurcation/globalization/technology/inequality). I would argue that we are approaching levels similar to the early/mid-1800's, when trends in immigration/slavery/industrialization converged to create two America's.

The science is apparently settled but i guess I'm stuck in that thin frothy film at the top. It's pretty rambunctious here. We're open to new ideas and not just "settled science." Who knew that science was a fixed object?

I know the zeitqeist is against me as the Site Owner is the leading proponent. He's either brave enough to offer this platform for disagreement, or he's just collecting posts on who is first in the line for the right thinking re-education camps.

Still thinking how awful it would be to find out your child is not coming home today. How fucking awful.

/r

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Steve

My pistol carries 8 rounds, and the reload time is about 10 seconds. But I'm a much better target shooter than 307trout so I bet in 3 minutes I can hit the target more times than he can in total.

Congrats. My point is there should be limits. You will always have people who can do things with less. Again, I'm not advocating we confiscate weapons, just their ability to kill many fast, by the average American. You are obviously above average. ;-)

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.