Re: Florida School Shooting [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:13

Post #251 of 558 (2913 views)

Steve Hawley wrote:

As offensive as Halvard's post was i don't think he/she/it should be banned. He posts seldom and now has revealed himself to be the vile piece of shit that he is. We don't need safe spaces here.

Our gun confiscating website owner will probably not kick H to the curb even tho he was quick to do so with some others

I whole heartedly agree. Well said

Re: Florida School Shooting [BeeSeeBee] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:16

Post #252 of 558 (2906 views)

BeeSeeBee wrote:

spot wrote:

Just so I understand your argument...if homicide rates go up after a gun control law has gone into effect (such as what happened in Australia), that doesn’t mean that the gun control laws didn’t work; but if they did go down after a law went into place, then that is taken as evidence that they did work? I’m not sure you can have it both ways.

No, that was your point, only you only looked at one buyback and declared it didn't work for a couple years after. My point is that you have to assess things with not-bad data, such as non-population adjusted homicide figures.

Again, you cited both 2002 and the mid 90's as pivot points of homicide trends for Aus/US but failed to mention the additional firearm restrictions passed at those exact times. Do you think those restrictions had an effect? Do you think the lapsing of the AWB in 2004 affected the homicide rate in the US?

And again, I'm not making claims that they did or did not, I'm merely asking people to not discount that they *could* have an effect based on bad data. e.g. have an open mind, that's all.

OK, I see where you’re coming from, then. To answer your question, from what I’ve read, I’d have to say that I don’t see much correlation between the passing of gun laws and homicide rates. To your point about the AWB; rifles are used in a very small number of homicides such that the AWB can be assessed to have had zero impact on overall homicide rates; in fact, one could ban and confiscate all rifles and probably not have any impact on overall homicide rates.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Re: Florida School Shooting [spot] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:24

Post #253 of 558 (2886 views)

Good job carny in chief:
https://www.nbcnews.com/...eople-mental-n727221

Re: Florida School Shooting [ironmayb] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:24

Post #254 of 558 (2886 views)

ironmayb wrote:

Steve Hawley wrote:

As offensive as Halvard's post was i don't think he/she/it should be banned. He posts seldom and now has revealed himself to be the vile piece of shit that he is. We don't need safe spaces here.

Our gun confiscating website owner will probably not kick H to the curb even tho he was quick to do so with some others

I whole heartedly agree. Well said

Hey, how about that new singer for Stone Temple Pilots, Jeff Gutt. Sounds just like Scott Weiland, doesn't he?

Sorry, but all these academic discussions and statistics and talk of the banhammer and such were making my eyes glaze over.

Carry on, folks. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Re: Florida School Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:31

Post #255 of 558 (2870 views)

big kahuna wrote:

ironmayb wrote:

Steve Hawley wrote:

As offensive as Halvard's post was i don't think he/she/it should be banned. He posts seldom and now has revealed himself to be the vile piece of shit that he is. We don't need safe spaces here.

Our gun confiscating website owner will probably not kick H to the curb even tho he was quick to do so with some others

I whole heartedly agree. Well said

Hey, how about that new singer for Stone Temple Pilots, Jeff Gutt. Sounds just like Scott Weiland, doesn't he?

Sorry, but all these academic discussions and statistics and talk of the banhammer and such were making my eyes glaze over.

Carry on, folks. ;-)

By the time I saw this thread, it already had 160 or so replies. I pretty much knew it would have turned into a shit show, so I skipped it. I see I was not wrong, and should have just continued to skip this particular “discussion.”

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Re: Florida School Shooting [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:43

Post #256 of 558 (2849 views)

BCtriguy1 wrote:

JSA wrote:

BCtriguy1 wrote:

Regarding your "fuck you", these are your words:

You claim that I, acting as a responsible gun owner, should feel shame every time I go to the range as I should? Really? Then fuck you.

But I did not claim that. Read that obscene statement again. I claimed that strong 2A supporters (not all of whom I'm sure take their responsibility as seriously as some, like yourself, do) should absolutely have the aftermath of this shooting on their minds next time they exercise their rights. With rights come responsibilities. This one being a particularly heavy responsibility, with a heavy cost, and not something to take lightly, IMO.

I think slowman nicely distilled my thoughts when he said something akin to responsible gun owners taking ownership and coming up with solutions to some of the problems that stem from the ability to easily obtain guns.

I like you, man. I have no beef with you and we see eye-to-eye on a lot (most, even) of things. But, you made this comment:

But, I do hope strong 2A advocates at least think of those 17 coffins in the ground next time they go target shooting, as the reality is their freedom is paid for in the blood of a lot of innocent people.

You may have been swayed by emotion. You may have made a poor choice with your words. But, you wrote what is written above and that is an obscene statement. Those 17 innocent souls did not die defending any right. Their blood was not shed in furtherance of freedom. They were mowed down by a coward. Their senseless deaths do not, in any manner, pay for the freedom to bear arms. To suggest that responsible gun owners doing what EVERY gun owner should do should think of these senseless killings by a coward every time they go to the range is asinine and obscene.

And don't even try to pretend you were not trying to shame gun owners. You were. Just own it.

You are correct, those 17 innocent souls did not die defending your freedom, but they are absolutely the cost or fallout from you having that freedom, whether you choose to exercise that freedom or not.

I honestly did not mean to shame gun owners, but more to imply some pretty hard, sombre self reflection might be in order. Something beyond the "thoughts and prayers". Because, just maybe, some change is in order. Maybe, just maybe, gun owners can be a reasonable voice in that discussion to temper the ignorant over emotional insanity on the left and right that shout the loudest after these shootings.

I have no beef with people who own a gun. I'm not even anti-gun! I have a hunting trip planned for this summer. My uncles were both hunters, and a lot of people I know own rifles and hunt. I'm not tsk tsking at them. I'm also a big tool guy, and can appreciate them in that respect. [pink] Hell, I own 9 nail guns ;-). [/pink].

Ok. Well then, following your lead: I do hope strong supporters of alcohol consumption at least think of those 88,000 coffins in the ground next time they go to the bar, as the reality is their freedom is paid for in the blood of a lot of innocent people.

Do you see how asinine that comment is???

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Re: Florida School Shooting [Halvard] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:46

Post #257 of 558 (2845 views)

Halvard wrote:

307trout wrote:

Stumps wrote:

Also in UK if you do manage to get a gun licence the police can confiscate your weapons if there are any concerns about behaviour or mental health.

I can understand foreigners utter disgust at American gun laws and regulations. I get it. I don't agree with them, but I get it.

But I feel like I have just as much concern/disgust over the amount of control that people give to their government in other parts of the world. I can't imagine having my freedoms taken from me without significant due process.

I have no problem with Americans wanting a society with a lot of crime in general, and gun crime especially.
No one are shocked that Americans shoot each other.
I found it pathetic with all the thoughts and prayers.

Everybody knows that more mass shootings will happen. The reason is that this is what Americans want.

Americans do not think these kids have value. So why should I care.

I save my thoughts and prayers for someone that needs it.

Hopefully Trump can make it easier for people to get guns. Then we will see at lot of kids killed while free. That is cool the NRA way.

Just when I thought BCtriguy1 had the most obscene post in this thread, you top it. Congrats. You, sir, are a despicable individual.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Re: Florida School Shooting [spot] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:47

Post #258 of 558 (2838 views)

spot wrote:

Steve Hawley wrote:

As offensive as Halvard's post was i don't think he/she/it should be banned. He posts seldom and now has revealed himself to be the vile piece of shit that he is. We don't need safe spaces here.

Our gun confiscating website owner will probably not kick H to the curb even tho he was quick to do so with some others

I don’t disagree, but your last sentence hits upon my point...if this is a place where folks get banned for over the top, vile posts, then there should some level of detectable consistency. If Harvard is allowed to get away with this sort of thing, it may be reasonable to conclude that bans are at least somewhat politically biased.

You are just now figuring that out???

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Re: Florida School Shooting [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:48

Post #259 of 558 (2836 views)

Steve Hawley wrote:

so tell us what 'common sense gun control' you'd propose to deal with these lone mass shootings you're so careful to single out?

??

Steve

Re: Florida School Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:49

Post #260 of 558 (2834 views)

JSA wrote:

BCtriguy1 wrote:

JSA wrote:

BCtriguy1 wrote:

Regarding your "fuck you", these are your words:

You claim that I, acting as a responsible gun owner, should feel shame every time I go to the range as I should? Really? Then fuck you.

But I did not claim that. Read that obscene statement again. I claimed that strong 2A supporters (not all of whom I'm sure take their responsibility as seriously as some, like yourself, do) should absolutely have the aftermath of this shooting on their minds next time they exercise their rights. With rights come responsibilities. This one being a particularly heavy responsibility, with a heavy cost, and not something to take lightly, IMO.

I think slowman nicely distilled my thoughts when he said something akin to responsible gun owners taking ownership and coming up with solutions to some of the problems that stem from the ability to easily obtain guns.

I like you, man. I have no beef with you and we see eye-to-eye on a lot (most, even) of things. But, you made this comment:

But, I do hope strong 2A advocates at least think of those 17 coffins in the ground next time they go target shooting, as the reality is their freedom is paid for in the blood of a lot of innocent people.

You may have been swayed by emotion. You may have made a poor choice with your words. But, you wrote what is written above and that is an obscene statement. Those 17 innocent souls did not die defending any right. Their blood was not shed in furtherance of freedom. They were mowed down by a coward. Their senseless deaths do not, in any manner, pay for the freedom to bear arms. To suggest that responsible gun owners doing what EVERY gun owner should do should think of these senseless killings by a coward every time they go to the range is asinine and obscene.

And don't even try to pretend you were not trying to shame gun owners. You were. Just own it.

You are correct, those 17 innocent souls did not die defending your freedom, but they are absolutely the cost or fallout from you having that freedom, whether you choose to exercise that freedom or not.

I honestly did not mean to shame gun owners, but more to imply some pretty hard, sombre self reflection might be in order. Something beyond the "thoughts and prayers". Because, just maybe, some change is in order. Maybe, just maybe, gun owners can be a reasonable voice in that discussion to temper the ignorant over emotional insanity on the left and right that shout the loudest after these shootings.

I have no beef with people who own a gun. I'm not even anti-gun! I have a hunting trip planned for this summer. My uncles were both hunters, and a lot of people I know own rifles and hunt. I'm not tsk tsking at them. I'm also a big tool guy, and can appreciate them in that respect. [pink] Hell, I own 9 nail guns ;-). [/pink].

Ok. Well then, following your lead: I do hope strong supporters of alcohol consumption at least think of those 88,000 coffins in the ground next time they go to the bar, as the reality is their freedom is paid for in the blood of a lot of innocent people.

Do you see how asinine that comment is???

Yes, I absolutely see how asinine your comment is.

Long Chile was a silly place.

Re: Florida School Shooting [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:49

Post #261 of 558 (2832 views)

BCtriguy1 wrote:

JSA wrote:

BCtriguy1 wrote:

JSA wrote:

BCtriguy1 wrote:

Regarding your "fuck you", these are your words:

You claim that I, acting as a responsible gun owner, should feel shame every time I go to the range as I should? Really? Then fuck you.

But I did not claim that. Read that obscene statement again. I claimed that strong 2A supporters (not all of whom I'm sure take their responsibility as seriously as some, like yourself, do) should absolutely have the aftermath of this shooting on their minds next time they exercise their rights. With rights come responsibilities. This one being a particularly heavy responsibility, with a heavy cost, and not something to take lightly, IMO.

I think slowman nicely distilled my thoughts when he said something akin to responsible gun owners taking ownership and coming up with solutions to some of the problems that stem from the ability to easily obtain guns.

I like you, man. I have no beef with you and we see eye-to-eye on a lot (most, even) of things. But, you made this comment:

But, I do hope strong 2A advocates at least think of those 17 coffins in the ground next time they go target shooting, as the reality is their freedom is paid for in the blood of a lot of innocent people.

You may have been swayed by emotion. You may have made a poor choice with your words. But, you wrote what is written above and that is an obscene statement. Those 17 innocent souls did not die defending any right. Their blood was not shed in furtherance of freedom. They were mowed down by a coward. Their senseless deaths do not, in any manner, pay for the freedom to bear arms. To suggest that responsible gun owners doing what EVERY gun owner should do should think of these senseless killings by a coward every time they go to the range is asinine and obscene.

And don't even try to pretend you were not trying to shame gun owners. You were. Just own it.

You are correct, those 17 innocent souls did not die defending your freedom, but they are absolutely the cost or fallout from you having that freedom, whether you choose to exercise that freedom or not.

I honestly did not mean to shame gun owners, but more to imply some pretty hard, sombre self reflection might be in order. Something beyond the "thoughts and prayers". Because, just maybe, some change is in order. Maybe, just maybe, gun owners can be a reasonable voice in that discussion to temper the ignorant over emotional insanity on the left and right that shout the loudest after these shootings.

I have no beef with people who own a gun. I'm not even anti-gun! I have a hunting trip planned for this summer. My uncles were both hunters, and a lot of people I know own rifles and hunt. I'm not tsk tsking at them. I'm also a big tool guy, and can appreciate them in that respect. [pink] Hell, I own 9 nail guns ;-). [/pink].

Ok. Well then, following your lead: I do hope strong supporters of alcohol consumption at least think of those 88,000 coffins in the ground next time they go to the bar, as the reality is their freedom is paid for in the blood of a lot of innocent people.

Do you see how asinine that comment is???

Yes, I absolutely see how asinine your comment is.

Now look in the mirror.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Re: Florida School Shooting [spot] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 18:53

Post #262 of 558 (2824 views)

spot wrote:

big kahuna wrote:

Now, now. Let's all put down the pitchforks and flaming torches, boys. Y'all are better'n that. ;-)

I don’t particularly care whether or not Harvard gets banned. What would interest me is an explanation as to why his post isn’t ban worthy (assuming that is the case), and folks like Forge, Windy, Duffy, and Yahey are gone.

YaHey? Really? He was the most racist and homophobic poster we have ever seen in the LR. He repeatedly used ethnic slurs towards my family and others. He used homophobic slurs as well. No, I did not complain, but, I got a talking to from Dan b/c YaHey got upset that I kept referring to him as a female (remember, he posted a picture of his hands and as God as my witness, I really thought those dainty hands belonged to a woman).

Duffy got banned b/c he has Trump's balls in his mouth. Windy got banned b/c he was trying to out-Duffy Duffy. Forge was banned b/c Halvard is a bitch.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Last edited by: JSA: Feb 15, 18 18:54

Re: Florida School Shooting [Halvard] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:04

Post #263 of 558 (2795 views)

Halvard wrote:

307trout wrote:

Stumps wrote:

Also in UK if you do manage to get a gun licence the police can confiscate your weapons if there are any concerns about behaviour or mental health.

I can understand foreigners utter disgust at American gun laws and regulations. I get it. I don't agree with them, but I get it.

But I feel like I have just as much concern/disgust over the amount of control that people give to their government in other parts of the world. I can't imagine having my freedoms taken from me without significant due process.

I have no problem with Americans wanting a society with a lot of crime in general, and gun crime especially.
No one are shocked that Americans shoot each other.
I found it pathetic with all the thoughts and prayers.

Everybody knows that more mass shootings will happen. The reason is that this is what Americans want.

Americans do not think these kids have value. So why should I care.

I save my thoughts and prayers for someone that needs it.

Hopefully Trump can make it easier for people to get guns. Then we will see at lot of kids killed while free. That is cool the NRA way.

Holy shit.

As an American father of 3 school aged children, husband of a school administrator, and licensed concealed carry permit holder I would respectfully like to tell you to GO FUCK YOURSELF.

That said all I can think of is that you are trolling hard to get people to threaten you again and get banned from here like you did with The Forge. So I won’t go that far and will just keep it simple and say to GO FUCK YOURSELF.

As for the Trump part, I didn’t vote for him and think he he a vile piece of shit human being. But if you think he or anyone else condones shooting children you can again GO FUCK YOURSELF.

Re: Florida School Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:07

Post #264 of 558 (2791 views)

Didn't Forge get a temporary ban for saying that the French or some other country deserved the terrorist attack that killed a number of people because of their immigration policy? That was nowhere near as bad as Halvard's post.

Francois said that he knows Halvard and that he is a nice person. I think he might better reevaluate that.

Halvard likes to offend certain groups of people. I don't think he accomplishes that as much as he shows his true colors.

Re: Florida School Shooting [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:09

Post #265 of 558 (2788 views)

rick_pcfl wrote:

Didn't Forge get a temporary ban for saying that the French or some other country deserved the terrorist attack that killed a number of people because of their immigration policy? That was nowhere near as bad as Halvard's post.

Francois said that he knows Halvard and that he is a nice person. I think he might better reevaluate that.

Halvard likes to offend certain groups of people. I don't think he accomplishes that as much as he shows his true colors.

and there ya go!

Steve

Re: Florida School Shooting [307trout] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:13

Post #266 of 558 (2778 views)

Quote:

Raw numbers skew the answer too much to be useful.

Please. Just because those numbers are hugely inconvenient .... Your data (if we saw it) relies on abnormally high-crime pockets which is certainly also not useful. The same page has data for murders and (predictably), extreme poverty in urban areas skews the data. I am very interested in overall firearm deaths, because, as I pointed out, the only time my family used a gun was for suicide.

Re: Florida School Shooting [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:14

Post #267 of 558 (2777 views)

Steve Hawley wrote:

rick_pcfl wrote:

Didn't Forge get a temporary ban for saying that the French or some other country deserved the terrorist attack that killed a number of people because of their immigration policy? That was nowhere near as bad as Halvard's post.

Francois said that he knows Halvard and that he is a nice person. I think he might better reevaluate that.

Halvard likes to offend certain groups of people. I don't think he accomplishes that as much as he shows his true colors.

and there ya go!

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Re: Florida School Shooting [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:18

Post #268 of 558 (2769 views)

rick_pcfl wrote:

Didn't Forge get a temporary ban for saying that the French or some other country deserved the terrorist attack that killed a number of people because of their immigration policy? That was nowhere near as bad as Halvard's post.

Francois said that he knows Halvard and that he is a nice person. I think he might better reevaluate that.

Halvard likes to offend certain groups of people. I don't think he accomplishes that as much as he shows his true colors.

I think that was his first time out. Then in a more recent thread he told Harvard he better hope to never meet him on the street or he would regret it. I think that was the reason for his permanent ban.

And Harvard can GO FUCK HIMSELF.

Last edited by: ChrisT: Feb 15, 18 19:38

Re: Florida School Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:19

Post #269 of 558 (2768 views)

JSA wrote:

DavHamm wrote:

BK, I wasn't actually proposing a solution, but making a point, that neither side will compromise. So if a bill to pay for 10 Armed guards were placed in each school and we banned, the BD3234s gun were to try to be passed, it would get no support cause the Liberals don't want armed schools and the conservatives dont want their gun touched. Stat's figure ect.. don't matter. If stopping these types of events were really important we would have gotten it done in the 19yrs since Columbine. I'll keep saying it WE DONT CARE. JSA can rattle off all his gun stat's they don't matter, neither side thinks this is enough of an issue to move an inch. Pretty sure we still don't have a law banning Bump stops. We can't even get that done. JUST ANOTHER DAY IN AMERICA.

The fact that you are too ignorant to see that the stats matter show that you are the biggest part of the problem.

Funniest thing about this entire debate JSA, I don't give a shit about gun rights, own an RPG or a fully automatic if you want, Personally I don't give a shit one way or another. But your banter, makes for some good entertainment.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Re: Florida School Shooting [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:23

Post #270 of 558 (2762 views)

oldandslow wrote:

Quote:

Raw numbers skew the answer too much to be useful.

Please. Just because those numbers are hugely inconvenient .... Your data (if we saw it) relies on abnormally high-crime pockets which is certainly also not useful. The same page has data for murders and (predictably), extreme poverty in urban areas skews the data. I am very interested in overall firearm deaths, because, as I pointed out, the only time my family used a gun was for suicide.

I don't really care if gang bangers kill each other.

If someone wants to end their own life, I think they have that right, regardless of the tool used. Sad, yes, but hard to demonize guns in this category IMO. See also, Japan.

The number that matters is innocent lives taken by firearms. That is what we are really talking about here. That number is what we would like to reduce.

Re: Florida School Shooting [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:23

Post #271 of 558 (2761 views)

rick_pcfl wrote:

Enough with the "gun owners don't care enough to fix it". That's bullshit. The issue is that we do not believe your solution would work. Plain and simple. I'm pretty sure that most of us, especially those of us with children, would jump on to any solution that would actually work. We just do not believe that banning XYZ gun type will make any noticeable difference.

Do you honestly believe that a crazed person with the intention to kill will give up if he can't get an AR-15? I don't. Neither do many other gun owners. To us, banning AR type guns would be no more effective in stopping mass shootings as would banning Vodka. So, why should we give up our rights to follow a plan that will not work.

Its called compromise, you want the other side to give some, you have to give some. Lets start with bump stops... Neither side cares enough. I have 20yrs of evidence of that. Nothing changes, we all can agree if nothing changes, then nothing will change. We will continue and have these event. Think about, I don't give a rip what the stat's say what your personal feeling is, if we just sit there and say IM right and wont move how can we say we care. We don't and many many many more of these will happen.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Re: Florida School Shooting [Halvard] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:29

Post #272 of 558 (2756 views)

Last February, Trump signed a bill making it easier for people with mental illness to buy guns
Republicans rolled back even the most modest gun regulations.

Re: Florida School Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:30

Post #273 of 558 (2756 views)

JSA wrote:

BCtriguy1 wrote:

JSA wrote:

BCtriguy1 wrote:

JSA wrote:

BCtriguy1 wrote:

Regarding your "fuck you", these are your words:

You claim that I, acting as a responsible gun owner, should feel shame every time I go to the range as I should? Really? Then fuck you.

But I did not claim that. Read that obscene statement again. I claimed that strong 2A supporters (not all of whom I'm sure take their responsibility as seriously as some, like yourself, do) should absolutely have the aftermath of this shooting on their minds next time they exercise their rights. With rights come responsibilities. This one being a particularly heavy responsibility, with a heavy cost, and not something to take lightly, IMO.

I think slowman nicely distilled my thoughts when he said something akin to responsible gun owners taking ownership and coming up with solutions to some of the problems that stem from the ability to easily obtain guns.

I like you, man. I have no beef with you and we see eye-to-eye on a lot (most, even) of things. But, you made this comment:

But, I do hope strong 2A advocates at least think of those 17 coffins in the ground next time they go target shooting, as the reality is their freedom is paid for in the blood of a lot of innocent people.

You may have been swayed by emotion. You may have made a poor choice with your words. But, you wrote what is written above and that is an obscene statement. Those 17 innocent souls did not die defending any right. Their blood was not shed in furtherance of freedom. They were mowed down by a coward. Their senseless deaths do not, in any manner, pay for the freedom to bear arms. To suggest that responsible gun owners doing what EVERY gun owner should do should think of these senseless killings by a coward every time they go to the range is asinine and obscene.

And don't even try to pretend you were not trying to shame gun owners. You were. Just own it.

You are correct, those 17 innocent souls did not die defending your freedom, but they are absolutely the cost or fallout from you having that freedom, whether you choose to exercise that freedom or not.

I honestly did not mean to shame gun owners, but more to imply some pretty hard, sombre self reflection might be in order. Something beyond the "thoughts and prayers". Because, just maybe, some change is in order. Maybe, just maybe, gun owners can be a reasonable voice in that discussion to temper the ignorant over emotional insanity on the left and right that shout the loudest after these shootings.

I have no beef with people who own a gun. I'm not even anti-gun! I have a hunting trip planned for this summer. My uncles were both hunters, and a lot of people I know own rifles and hunt. I'm not tsk tsking at them. I'm also a big tool guy, and can appreciate them in that respect. [pink] Hell, I own 9 nail guns ;-). [/pink].

Ok. Well then, following your lead: I do hope strong supporters of alcohol consumption at least think of those 88,000 coffins in the ground next time they go to the bar, as the reality is their freedom is paid for in the blood of a lot of innocent people.

Do you see how asinine that comment is???

Yes, I absolutely see how asinine your comment is.

Now look in the mirror.

God damn, am I ever handsome!

I said it before: guns are not cars (or, booze as in your example), or bananas, or can openers, but I do find it odd how you chose that example, given how in your country, booze is apparently seen as so dangerous that it is perfectly acceptable to restrict ownership or use of it to those 21 years or older, yet the shooter in Florida was in legal possession of his firearms and somehow talk of restricting those rights is met with such opposition.

Long Chile was a silly place.

Re: Florida School Shooting [Halvard] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:33

Post #274 of 558 (2745 views)

Halvard wrote:

Last February, Trump signed a bill making it easier for people with mental illness to buy guns
Republicans rolled back even the most modest gun regulations.

could you just stay away? go away?

Steve

Re: Florida School Shooting [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]

Feb 15, 18 19:38

Post #275 of 558 (3004 views)

Isn't part of the problem with this mass school shootings the fact that the shooter somehow feels that a gun is a solution to a problem they have?

And isn't it a part of American culture that the ownership and use of a gun as a solution to certain problems is an acceptable solution?

So really, the whole school shooting issue is really part of an American culture which believes that using a weapon is an acceptable solution to a problem?

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