BarryP wrote:
Irrelevant as it is, at least you got the hobby right this time (I actually know when and where that picture is from. Guy on the left is a friend of mine).
Men beating other men. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Lavender Room
Login required to started new threads
Login required to post replies
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [BarryP]
[ In reply to ]
Irrelevant as it is, at least you got the hobby right this time (I actually know when and where that picture is from. Guy on the left is a friend of mine).
Men beating other men. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [BarryP]
[ In reply to ]
Diana has put away her bosom. Apollo has lifted his skirt. The day has been launched.
Let's get ready to dance... with swords!
Rub-a-dub-dub!
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Let's get ready to dance... with swords!
Rub-a-dub-dub!
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [rob2681]
[ In reply to ]
I was just reading an article about possible ice/water being found on Mars. There was a comment that cracked up everyone - "Mars is a shithole".
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [Spiridon Louis]
[ In reply to ]
Spiridon Louis wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
Spiridon Louis wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
You still haven't explained why you think we wouldn't want refugees from those "shithole" countries living in our homes.What I said was "My guess is you wouldn't want a refuge from a "shithole" country living in your house, but I don't think that makes you a racist because I don't think you're considering the race of the person when you make that judgement. "
You're emphasizing the wrong part of the statement. If you do want refugees from "shithole" countries living in your house then more power to you. But you're not less racist than the person who doesn't because I don't think race would play into that decision making process for most people, certainly not for the person to whom my comment was addressed. Are you saying he's a racist if my guess is correct? Cuz I don't think he is.
So taking the person who you think doesn't want refugees from shithole countries, why do you guess he doesn't want them? What do you "guess" is the basis for that decision?
I mean, you're not suggesting they don't want any refugees 'period' living in their house. You said you guess they wouldn't want refugees from those shithole countries living in their house? For what reason would they not want those particular refugees?
I’m not sure there is such a thing as a refugee from a country that’s not a shithole so refugee and shithole country go together for me. l can see why your confused though so apologies for that. Curious, what trap is it that you’re trying to set here?
You should be a politician given your art of dodging the question.
First ignore, then obfuscate, then try to turn it around to a question to me.
Ok, I think I have my answer. Let's move on...
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [rick_pcfl]
[ In reply to ]
rick_pcfl wrote:
I was just reading an article about possible ice/water being found on Mars. There was a comment that cracked up everyone - "Mars is a shithole".That's a given, It's hot, it's cold, it's a long commute to work, you have to bank 10 years of holidays just to go see your mom in the states. If you ever qualify for Kona the invite will be expired before you get to earth let alone Hawaii. Yup, it's a shit hole.
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [SH]
[ In reply to ]
SH wrote:
Quote:
i don't think the issue is that he's calling countries shitholes that are, objectively, shitholes. i've lived in some shitholes and can definitely say that they exist: bad infrastructure, corruption, endemic disease, etc. as i see it, the issue is that he's impugning everyone who comes from those shitholes, purely because they come from shitholes (which is the very definition of prejudice). the problem is the countries, not the people.
It takes people to create problems. It takes people to solve problems. It takes people to let problems linger. Ergo, it takes people to create shitholes. Countries have no agency without people. I thought it was clear that Trump was impugning an immigration strategy of randomly gathering from human cultural failure.
Edit: As I think about it, nature can create problems, too. However, my interpretation of "shithole" was the importance of the man-made component of the problems.
Like you say; people create countries and, therefore, people are part of the problem. I don't know if it's cultural or economic or post-colonial or what (I suspect it's a mixture of a lot of things) but here's what I do know:
You never see Wheel of Fortune offering Haiti, Somalia or El Salvador as a prize vacation on the wheel, now do you? Good reasons for that.
Edited to add:
Guess which sh*thole this is:
"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Last edited by:
big kahuna: Jan 13, 18 6:00
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [rick_pcfl]
[ In reply to ]
rick_pcfl wrote:
I was just reading an article about possible ice/water being found on Mars. There was a comment that cracked up everyone - "Mars is a shithole".Well, does Trump have any properties there? If not, you have your answer. ;)
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [big kahuna]
[ In reply to ]
big kahuna wrote:
SH wrote:
Quote:
i don't think the issue is that he's calling countries shitholes that are, objectively, shitholes. i've lived in some shitholes and can definitely say that they exist: bad infrastructure, corruption, endemic disease, etc. as i see it, the issue is that he's impugning everyone who comes from those shitholes, purely because they come from shitholes (which is the very definition of prejudice). the problem is the countries, not the people.
It takes people to create problems. It takes people to solve problems. It takes people to let problems linger. Ergo, it takes people to create shitholes. Countries have no agency without people. I thought it was clear that Trump was impugning an immigration strategy of randomly gathering from human cultural failure.
Edit: As I think about it, nature can create problems, too. However, my interpretation of "shithole" was the importance of the man-made component of the problems.
Like you say; people create countries and, therefore, people are part of the problem. I don't know if it's cultural or economic or post-colonial or what (I suspect it's a mixture of a lot of things) but here's what I do know:
You never see Wheel of Fortune offering Haiti, Somalia or El Salvador as a prize vacation on the wheel, now do you? Good reasons for that.
Edited to add:
Guess which sh*thole this is:
New Jersey?
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [SH]
[ In reply to ]
SH wrote:
Quote:
i don't think the issue is that he's calling countries shitholes that are, objectively, shitholes. i've lived in some shitholes and can definitely say that they exist: bad infrastructure, corruption, endemic disease, etc. as i see it, the issue is that he's impugning everyone who comes from those shitholes, purely because they come from shitholes (which is the very definition of prejudice). the problem is the countries, not the people.
It takes people to create problems. It takes people to solve problems. It takes people to let problems linger. Ergo, it takes people to create shitholes. Countries have no agency without people. I thought it was clear that Trump was impugning an immigration strategy of randomly gathering from human cultural failure.
Edit: As I think about it, nature can create problems, too. However, my interpretation of "shithole" was the importance of the man-made component of the problems.
Don't you find it tiresome to continually have to read into and explain what you think Trump means instead of him just coming right out and saying it?
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [dave_w]
[ In reply to ]
dave_w wrote:
rick_pcfl wrote:
I was just reading an article about possible ice/water being found on Mars. There was a comment that cracked up everyone - "Mars is a shithole".-
Well, does Trump have any properties there? If not, you have your answer. ;)
Nominees for sh*thole status. I'll start:
-- Anywhere in Africa where you have to walk somewhere to get water. That's most of the continent. ;-)
-- Anywhere ending in "-stan." Afghanistan, Dagestan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Pakistan, etc. I think I liked these places better when they were either captive republics of the Soviet Union or were docile client states of the same.
"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [TimeIsUp]
[ In reply to ]
TimeIsUp wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
SH wrote:
Quote:
i don't think the issue is that he's calling countries shitholes that are, objectively, shitholes. i've lived in some shitholes and can definitely say that they exist: bad infrastructure, corruption, endemic disease, etc. as i see it, the issue is that he's impugning everyone who comes from those shitholes, purely because they come from shitholes (which is the very definition of prejudice). the problem is the countries, not the people.
It takes people to create problems. It takes people to solve problems. It takes people to let problems linger. Ergo, it takes people to create shitholes. Countries have no agency without people. I thought it was clear that Trump was impugning an immigration strategy of randomly gathering from human cultural failure.
Edit: As I think about it, nature can create problems, too. However, my interpretation of "shithole" was the importance of the man-made component of the problems.
Like you say; people create countries and, therefore, people are part of the problem. I don't know if it's cultural or economic or post-colonial or what (I suspect it's a mixture of a lot of things) but here's what I do know:
You never see Wheel of Fortune offering Haiti, Somalia or El Salvador as a prize vacation on the wheel, now do you? Good reasons for that.
Edited to add:
Guess which sh*thole this is:
New Jersey?
Hahahahahahaha! Yeah, Chris Christie's old swimming hole. ;-)
"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [j p o]
[ In reply to ]
j p o wrote:
dave_w wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
And this is what makes those with Trump Derangement Syndrome so pathetic. They'll use pretzel logic to twist anything he says into racism. This is what I don't understand. The President of the U.S goes and publicly calls other countries shitholes, and his defenders knee jerk reaction is to defend him and label anyone who deems it inappropriate as people with Trump Derangement Syndrome.
The office of the President used to be seen as lofty and the person holding the position revered and respected, Now, many people seem to be perfectly fine with his adolescent comments.
It really is difficult to understand and has nothing to do with TDS although I'm sure that will be used against me.
-
What I don't get is people not knowing that he did not say it publicly, it was in a closed door meeting with some congress critters. Tactless, tasteless, and Trumpian, but not public, and not the type of thing we don't see reported about many if not most presidents, the difference being it's usually after they are out of office. It was leaked, back to my Lance analogy, and the fact that he is hated by so many on both sides, and I would not even bet it was a dem that leaked it.
Do you think it is more or less likely to reflect his true feelings when said behind closed doors?
Body of work has been in the news here lately. Apply it to Trump. What do you come up with on this topic?
Pointed out to Sanuk because I respect his opinions, and want to stay close to reality here, not facts be damned emotional response. As to the Donald, comments probably reflect his feelings, and he may indeed be racist (though i wonder if more of a 12yo bubble boy, owing to a lifetime of ridiculous wealth). I think I long ago moved past what Trump says, and to a place where I say "okay, what does the policy proposal look like?" and largely ignore him. I guess I got to "at this point, what difference does it make?", as he is POTUS, we get what we get unless and until he does something impeachable.
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [dave_w]
[ In reply to ]
dave_w wrote:
j p o wrote:
dave_w wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
And this is what makes those with Trump Derangement Syndrome so pathetic. They'll use pretzel logic to twist anything he says into racism. This is what I don't understand. The President of the U.S goes and publicly calls other countries shitholes, and his defenders knee jerk reaction is to defend him and label anyone who deems it inappropriate as people with Trump Derangement Syndrome.
The office of the President used to be seen as lofty and the person holding the position revered and respected, Now, many people seem to be perfectly fine with his adolescent comments.
It really is difficult to understand and has nothing to do with TDS although I'm sure that will be used against me.
-
What I don't get is people not knowing that he did not say it publicly, it was in a closed door meeting with some congress critters. Tactless, tasteless, and Trumpian, but not public, and not the type of thing we don't see reported about many if not most presidents, the difference being it's usually after they are out of office. It was leaked, back to my Lance analogy, and the fact that he is hated by so many on both sides, and I would not even bet it was a dem that leaked it.
Do you think it is more or less likely to reflect his true feelings when said behind closed doors?
Body of work has been in the news here lately. Apply it to Trump. What do you come up with on this topic?
-
Pointed out to Sanuk because I respect his opinions, and want to stay close to reality here, not facts be damned emotional response. As to the Donald, comments probably reflect his feelings, and he may indeed be racist (though i wonder if more of a 12yo bubble boy, owing to a lifetime of ridiculous wealth). I think I long ago moved past what Trump says, and to a place where I say "okay, what does the policy proposal look like?" and largely ignore him. I guess I got to "at this point, what difference does it make?", as he is POTUS, we get what we get unless and until he does something impeachable.
Here's how I came to reconcile myself to that guy in the White House being my president, just as I learned -- over time (okay, really after 2012 ;-) -- to do the same for his predecessor:
"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [dave_w]
[ In reply to ]
dave_w wrote:
j p o wrote:
dave_w wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
And this is what makes those with Trump Derangement Syndrome so pathetic. They'll use pretzel logic to twist anything he says into racism. This is what I don't understand. The President of the U.S goes and publicly calls other countries shitholes, and his defenders knee jerk reaction is to defend him and label anyone who deems it inappropriate as people with Trump Derangement Syndrome.
The office of the President used to be seen as lofty and the person holding the position revered and respected, Now, many people seem to be perfectly fine with his adolescent comments.
It really is difficult to understand and has nothing to do with TDS although I'm sure that will be used against me.
-
What I don't get is people not knowing that he did not say it publicly, it was in a closed door meeting with some congress critters. Tactless, tasteless, and Trumpian, but not public, and not the type of thing we don't see reported about many if not most presidents, the difference being it's usually after they are out of office. It was leaked, back to my Lance analogy, and the fact that he is hated by so many on both sides, and I would not even bet it was a dem that leaked it.
Do you think it is more or less likely to reflect his true feelings when said behind closed doors?
Body of work has been in the news here lately. Apply it to Trump. What do you come up with on this topic?
Pointed out to Sanuk because I respect his opinions, and want to stay close to reality here, not facts be damned emotional response. As to the Donald, comments probably reflect his feelings, and he may indeed be racist (though i wonder if more of a 12yo bubble boy, owing to a lifetime of ridiculous wealth). I think I long ago moved past what Trump says, and to a place where I say "okay, what does the policy proposal look like?" and largely ignore him. I guess I got to "at this point, what difference does it make?", as he is POTUS, we get what we get unless and until he does something impeachable.
That's a great philosophy if the US was in a bubble. I feel like #MAGA has created an atmosphere where people like to pretend we don't need the rest of the world.
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [dave_w]
[ In reply to ]
dave_w wrote:
j p o wrote:
dave_w wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
And this is what makes those with Trump Derangement Syndrome so pathetic. They'll use pretzel logic to twist anything he says into racism. This is what I don't understand. The President of the U.S goes and publicly calls other countries shitholes, and his defenders knee jerk reaction is to defend him and label anyone who deems it inappropriate as people with Trump Derangement Syndrome.
The office of the President used to be seen as lofty and the person holding the position revered and respected, Now, many people seem to be perfectly fine with his adolescent comments.
It really is difficult to understand and has nothing to do with TDS although I'm sure that will be used against me.
-
What I don't get is people not knowing that he did not say it publicly, it was in a closed door meeting with some congress critters. Tactless, tasteless, and Trumpian, but not public, and not the type of thing we don't see reported about many if not most presidents, the difference being it's usually after they are out of office. It was leaked, back to my Lance analogy, and the fact that he is hated by so many on both sides, and I would not even bet it was a dem that leaked it.
Do you think it is more or less likely to reflect his true feelings when said behind closed doors?
Body of work has been in the news here lately. Apply it to Trump. What do you come up with on this topic?
-
Pointed out to Sanuk because I respect his opinions, and want to stay close to reality here, not facts be damned emotional response. As to the Donald, comments probably reflect his feelings, and he may indeed be racist (though i wonder if more of a 12yo bubble boy, owing to a lifetime of ridiculous wealth). I think I long ago moved past what Trump says, and to a place where I say "okay, what does the policy proposal look like?" and largely ignore him. I guess I got to "at this point, what difference does it make?", as he is POTUS, we get what we get unless and until he does something impeachable.
And I can accept that. That viewpoint is reasonable. I think it is not completely indefensible to have voted for him in the general election because you thought it more likely he would put policies in place closer to what you thought should be there than Clinton would.
What I don't get is people who still support HIM, as a person. And people who voted for him in the primaries. And I don't understand why so many in the GOP have sold the soul of their party in support of him. When I see a group of evangelical preachers laying their hands on him and praying like he is a righteous man going off on a crusade it makes my skin crawl.
I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [j p o]
[ In reply to ]
j p o wrote:
And I can accept that. That viewpoint is reasonable. I think it is not completely indefensible to have voted for him in the general election because you thought it more likely he would put policies in place closer to what you thought should be there than Clinton would. What I don't get is people who still support HIM, as a person. And people who voted for him in the primaries. And I don't understand why so many in the GOP have sold the soul of their party in support of him. When I see a group of evangelical preachers laying their hands on him and praying like he is a righteous man going off on a crusade it makes my skin crawl.
That guy is a billionaire (so he says) with low-culture -- even vulgarian -- habits. A lot of the ill feelings towards him are more along the lines of taste issues, from what I can see. Conservatives should be jumping for joy, given what he's done in the time he's been in office. And if he just shut his mouth and acted like Calvin Coolidge, maybe, he'd fare a lot better with many people not of strict conservative outlooks. But because he's a crassly rich vulgarian we get a never-ending reality show circus, and it wears on folks.
Me, I abhored the first iteration of Jerry Springer's show. I don't need to watch a repeat, this time in the Oval Office. ;-)
"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Last edited by:
big kahuna: Jan 13, 18 6:55
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [j p o]
[ In reply to ]
j p o wrote:
And I can accept that. That viewpoint is reasonable. I think it is not completely indefensible to have voted for him in the general election because you thought it more likely he would put policies in place closer to what you thought should be there than Clinton would.
What I don't get is people who still support HIM, as a person. And people who voted for him in the primaries. And I don't understand why so many in the GOP have sold the soul of their party in support of him. When I see a group of evangelical preachers laying their hands on him and praying like he is a righteous man going off on a crusade it makes my skin crawl.
Yeah, total agreement on the second part, and to the first, I was pretty sure I would get more of what I wanted from govt via Trump than Clinton, and still could not vote for Trump. So I was on the Trump is personally vile and disgusting train early. OTOH, I'm not not ashamed to say that he has done several things I totally agree with.
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [TimeIsUp]
[ In reply to ]
TimeIsUp wrote:
SH wrote:
Quote:
i don't think the issue is that he's calling countries shitholes that are, objectively, shitholes. i've lived in some shitholes and can definitely say that they exist: bad infrastructure, corruption, endemic disease, etc. as i see it, the issue is that he's impugning everyone who comes from those shitholes, purely because they come from shitholes (which is the very definition of prejudice). the problem is the countries, not the people.
It takes people to create problems. It takes people to solve problems. It takes people to let problems linger. Ergo, it takes people to create shitholes. Countries have no agency without people. I thought it was clear that Trump was impugning an immigration strategy of randomly gathering from human cultural failure.
Edit: As I think about it, nature can create problems, too. However, my interpretation of "shithole" was the importance of the man-made component of the problems.
Don't you find it tiresome to continually have to read into and explain what you think Trump means instead of him just coming right out and saying it?
For a guy who apparently "tells it like it is" his utterances sure need a lot of parsing and translation.
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [dave_w]
[ In reply to ]
[quote dave_w
As to the Donald, comments probably reflect his feelings, and he may indeed be racist (though i wonder if more of a 12yo bubble boy, owing to a lifetime of ridiculous wealth). I think I long ago moved past what Trump says, and to a place where I say "okay, what does the policy proposal look like?" and largely ignore him. I guess I got to "at this point, what difference does it make?", as he is POTUS, we get what we get unless and until he does something impeachable.[/quote]
This.
Every time Trump communicates in any way, he seems to say something regrettable. To make it worse, he can't shut up. So 10x each day the media tries to make the public outraged with Trump's latest stupidity. I'm out of outrage. re what he says. I'm husbanding my remaining outrage so that I'll have some available for the various regrettable things that are about "doing". No more outrage re. saying, only for doing.
Subject change. Where did word "husbandry" come from? Where did the verb form of "husband" come from? How is it that they have the same root as the noun "husband".
Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
As to the Donald, comments probably reflect his feelings, and he may indeed be racist (though i wonder if more of a 12yo bubble boy, owing to a lifetime of ridiculous wealth). I think I long ago moved past what Trump says, and to a place where I say "okay, what does the policy proposal look like?" and largely ignore him. I guess I got to "at this point, what difference does it make?", as he is POTUS, we get what we get unless and until he does something impeachable.[/quote]
This.
Every time Trump communicates in any way, he seems to say something regrettable. To make it worse, he can't shut up. So 10x each day the media tries to make the public outraged with Trump's latest stupidity. I'm out of outrage. re what he says. I'm husbanding my remaining outrage so that I'll have some available for the various regrettable things that are about "doing". No more outrage re. saying, only for doing.
Subject change. Where did word "husbandry" come from? Where did the verb form of "husband" come from? How is it that they have the same root as the noun "husband".
Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [big kahuna]
[ In reply to ]
I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest it is a country that doesn't have an EPA.
Now guess what shit hole this was:
-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
Now guess what shit hole this was:
-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [gregtryin]
[ In reply to ]
The office of the President used to be seen as lofty and the person holding the position revered and respected.
Obama changed all of that before Trump ever showed up. In truth, it was Obama that made Trump president, much like CNN gave rise to FOX.
Both Bush 2 and Obama (as well as Reagain, Carter, Bush Sr.) were highly respected for their family values and for their compassion to people from all walks of life, no one can deny that.
Clinton was the first to diminish the status of the Presidency and he was widely and very loudly attacked for that by Republicans and in particular the evangelical community. Now Trump is doing the same and the same Republicans and evangelicals are perfectly fine with his behavior and silent with their criticisms.
It is shameful, no matter how you try and spin it.
Obama changed all of that before Trump ever showed up. In truth, it was Obama that made Trump president, much like CNN gave rise to FOX.
Both Bush 2 and Obama (as well as Reagain, Carter, Bush Sr.) were highly respected for their family values and for their compassion to people from all walks of life, no one can deny that.
Clinton was the first to diminish the status of the Presidency and he was widely and very loudly attacked for that by Republicans and in particular the evangelical community. Now Trump is doing the same and the same Republicans and evangelicals are perfectly fine with his behavior and silent with their criticisms.
It is shameful, no matter how you try and spin it.
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [BarryP]
[ In reply to ]
BarryP wrote:
I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest it is a country that doesn't have an EPA. Now guess what shit hole this was:
The Cuyahoga River in Cleveland. I had a client in that part of town for years. Shut down the facility in 2008-ish. That part of the city is a shithole.
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Sanuk wrote:
The office of the President used to be seen as lofty and the person holding the position revered and respected. Obama changed all of that before Trump ever showed up. In truth, it was Obama that made Trump president, much like CNN gave rise to FOX.
Both Bush 2 and Obama (as well as Reagain, Carter, Bush Sr.) were highly respected for their family values and for their compassion to people from all walks of life, no one can deny that.
Clinton was the first to diminish the status of the Presidency and he was widely and very loudly attacked for that by Republicans and in particular the evangelical community. Now Trump is doing the same and the same Republicans and evangelicals are perfectly fine with his behavior and silent with their criticisms.
It is shameful, no matter how you try and spin it.
Clinton was a complete and utter shit bag of of the nth degree. But, he was a good President, overall. Clinton taught me to separate the man from the position.
The problem with Republicans is they want to elect the "perfect" candidate. That's how Trump got into office, never winning majority support from any group. The problem with Donkeys is all they look for is the "D" behind the name.
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Re: Not surprised Trump is a racist [Kay Serrar]
[ In reply to ]
Kay Serrar wrote:
Ok, I think I have my answer. Let's move on...l seriously doubt that you do. But just for kicks, what do you think my answer is?
Quote:
Both Bush 2 and Obama (as well as Reagain, Carter, Bush Sr.) were highly respected for their family values and for their compassion to people from all walks of life, no one can deny that.This. Gregtryin can't separate his political disagreements from personal attributes.